Long-time readers know that I've been working with At Present since May and that I was named their Stylist in Residence back in June! It has been an absolute joy working with the team, but more than that, it’s been a real pleasure getting to know them personally. I’ve learned so much—not just about the world of jewelry, but also about the art of creating something meaningful as a team. I’m thrilled about a special project we've been working on, which will debut soon. I’ll share more details during fashion week, so be sure to stay tuned!
As a bit of a teaser for what's to come, I had the opportunity to sit down with Marc Bridge, the founder of At Present, to talk all things jewelry! As you'll discover in our interview, jewelry truly runs in his veins; it's something he lives and breathes. His passion for the industry is evident in the way he discusses what’s exciting him in the market and what keeps him motivated in this business.
We enjoyed a delightful light summer lunch at Le Gratin (I had a refreshing summer salad with a side of fries, and Marc had a fantastic chicken dish with a few vegetables to complement it.), Chef Daniel Boulud’s Bouchon Lyonnais (for those curious, a “Bouchon Lyonnais” is a type of restaurant unique to Lyon) located on the ground floor of The Beekman Hotel. If you follow me on Instagram (and if you don’t, you’re missing out!), you might remember me mentioning Le Gratin in my most recent Q&A as one of my favorite spots in the city, especially for its perfect atmosphere for a bit of gossip. The restaurant was buzzing with energy that day, but thankfully, Marc and I found a quiet corner. I’m especially happy to report that the audio quality is great (hooray!); you’ll still hear some clinks and chatter, but overall, it sounds pretty crisp. I hope you all enjoy this episode, and don’t forget to check out my August Edit for At Present!
Jalil Johnson (00:00:00): Let's begin. Please introduce yourself to the audience—who you are and all that jazz.
Marc Bridge (00:00:05): Yeah, my name is Marc Bridge. I am the founder of At Present. We are a marketplace for extraordinary jewelry, and we like to think of ourselves as matchmakers between the best jewelry artists in the world and people who are looking for unique things to celebrate where they are in their personal journeys.
JJ (00:00:29): Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining me on Lunch Break. I am really excited to talk to you. We've had dinner before and exchanged emails and whatnot, but it's been quite an honor to be a part of the At Present family. This is the first big gig that I've been working on since leaving Saks. It has been such a pleasure to be a part of this, and it's taught me a lot about jewelry, so I'm excited to talk about jewelry with you, of course, and to teach the audience about it.
MB (00:00:57): Few things are better to talk about than that.
JJ (00:00:59): The best thing to talk about. So I know that you come from a jewelry family, so how about you just tell us about your family and where you come from in that background?
MB (00:01:09): Yeah, geographically, I come from Seattle, which has been home to me and my family for about 115 or 120 years. That's a long time. And particularly out at the end of the world in Seattle, which is, in so many ways, such a new place and has transformed so many times in just the last couple of decades. My great-great-grandfather was a watchmaker who was originally from Poland and came to the United States in Altoona, Pennsylvania, in the late 19th century. He then followed the railroad out to the end of the line and ended up in Seattle in 1912. This was really a frontier town—this was the aftermath of the Klondike Gold Rush and pretty much the end of civilization. He set up a little watch shop on First Avenue in downtown Seattle in 1912. And so began a five-generation family jewelry business that I spent the first 35 years of my life working in and around.
MB (00:02:22): And that business was very much the classic family jewelry business. We sold engagement rings and diamond earrings, Rolex watches, and Mikimoto pearls. I spent all of my summers and school holidays—and I think anytime my parents wanted to get me out of the house—on the floor of the jewelry store, which in the 1920s moved four blocks up the hill to the corner of Fourth and Pike, where it was until, I dunno, about a year and a half ago. Some of my earliest memories are of being thrown out onto the sales floor in an oversized suit. Nobody told me it was strange for a 14-year-old to be selling engagement rings and expensive watches, so there I was.
JJ (00:03:16): In a big suit. Well, I mean, I have several questions about the clothing. First, who was the suit made by? Were you rocking a huge Armani-esque suit?
MB (00:03:26): I think this was probably...
JJ (00:03:28): What year was this?
MB (00:03:29): So, if I was 14, this was the mid-nineties, probably right after my bar mitzvah.
JJ (00:03:38): What was your bar mitzvah theme?
MB (00:03:40): My bar mitzvah theme? All I remember from the theme was that we had pop-a-shots, like the game where you play with the little basketball hoop.
JJ (00:03:51): Oh, like an arcade?
MB (00:03:52): Yeah, exactly.
JJ (00:03:53): Fantastic.
MB (00:03:55): But I was thinking about that in terms of clothes because, for whatever reason, my mom was morally opposed to children dressing like adults, which is sort of funny when you get to the later part of this story. But for her, the bar mitzvah was the moment when you could get your first suit. I don't know why—maybe because I saw my dad getting dressed in a suit and tie every morning—I wanted a sport coat, and my mom was like, "Nope, that is something you get at your bar mitzvah." So I got my first blue blazer for the Friday night ceremony and my first green suit—it was sort of an olive color—and I even remember the woven tie that I wore for the Saturday morning service.
JJ (00:04:42): That's quite a bold fashion choice—a green suit.
MB (00:04:46): I don't remember. I assume that was not something that I picked at that point.
JJ (00:04:51): Did your mom say that you needed to be in a green suit?
MB (00:04:52): I imagine I was just sort of handed this when we went to the store. "This is what you're wearing."
JJ (00:04:59): Oh, fantastic. Okay, a green suit. I love that. So...
MB (00:05:02): I don't know. By the time I was working in the store, did I still have the green suit? Maybe. But where...
JJ (00:05:07): Where is that green suit now? That's the...
MB (00:05:09): Somewhere deep in the archives. It's going to be in the Marc Bridge Memorial Museum someday. My mother has tried for years to get rid of all of the things, and I don't know where she is in that process of purging, but I think the green suit has probably gone on to greener pastures by now.
JJ (00:05:27): I hope it's still alive and well.
MB (00:05:28): I hope somebody's enjoying it. I hope there are generations of bar mitzvah boys who have worn that same drag ball of a suit.
JJ (00:05:35): It's a rite of passage. It was a suit of passage.
MB (00:05:37): Exactly. So I'm trying to remember... I remember that the first thing I got really excited to buy, I found a Hugo Boss Blazer on sale. There was a Barneys store in Seattle at the time.
JJ (00:05:54): RIP.
MB (00:05:55): Yeah, of blessed memory. And to go in there and find something that was probably 70% off or something at the time was still way beyond what any 14-, 15-, or 16-year-old should be wearing. But I thought that was pretty cool.
JJ (00:06:13): That's a big moment. Yeah. So at 14, you're in your big suit, your big green suit. Where do you go from there?
MB (00:06:21): Where do I go from there in terms of the jewelry business?
JJ (00:06:23): Yes, in the business.
MB (00:06:25): So I spent from 14 through, I mean, really through 25, 26, sort of working in between school, graduated from high school in Seattle, went off to college in St. Louis, went to graduate school in London, spent a couple of years in London, which was fabulous. I came home and went to law school, all to do the same thing I would have done had I dropped out of high school, which was to go into the family jewelry business. And so I joined in a full-time capacity after I passed the bar in 2009 and then spent a decade as the minister without portfolio in a family jewelry business.
JJ (00:07:10): Oh, I like that—a minister without portfolio. And so what made you feel like that?
MB (00:07:14): Because you do all of the things that either no one knows how to do or is willing to do. And so they go, "All right, we have this problem. Who do we have to solve it? Give it to Marc." "Okay, here's this other thing. Here's this thing that we should be doing." So I was corporate secretary and corporate counsel and head of visual merchandising and head of marketing and head of e-commerce and store construction and real estate and legal and all of these bizarre things, some of which I had qualifications for, others of which I had absolutely no business doing. They throw you in, and you go, "Alright, now you're going to figure it out." So that's those sort of sink-or-swim moments, and I had a lot of fun with it.
JJ (00:08:03): Then there was a moment, though, when you kind of took a step back, correct? From the business, and you went out on your own, right? Or not went out and started At Present, but you took a step back to think about what you wanted to do.
MB (00:08:15): Yeah. Well, the thought had always been that my sister and I would run that business when our father retired. And he came to us one day and said, "Alright, it's time." The family actually sold the business during that period to Warren Buffett, to Berkshire Hathaway. And so it was a family business in some ways, and in other ways, it was not. And Dad said, "Alright, put your business plan together. We're going to go to Omaha to see Uncle Warren and effectuate this transition plan that we've been talking about for three and a half decades." And I had been thinking about this for a long time and spending a lot of time looking at the world and the market and where I thought the opportunities were.
MB (00:09:04): Then I was evaluating, "Alright, do you take this existing model, this existing enterprise, and try to pursue some of these new opportunities? Or is it an opportunity to start something new?" Ultimately, I decided, both for the opportunity and for the challenge that I wanted for myself, that I think it's more fun to start something new. It's hard to take a big, existing ship with a lot of momentum and find new things and move it in a different direction. I kept seeing all of these things that I loved in the world—all of these amazing artists, all of these beautiful pieces—and it never worked with those in our hundred mall-based jewelry stores, where you have to cater to a very broad audience. In the legacy business, we sold all the foundational elements that people should have. We sold diamond stud earrings and Rolex submariners—the building blocks of a collection. I think about it a little bit like the...
JJ (00:10:16): Oh, thank you.
MB (00:10:16): It actually looks very pretty.
JJ (00:10:18): Oh, delicious. Oh, yes, thank you. Yeah.
MB (00:10:26): Beautiful. Thank you so much.
MB (00:10:30): Think about it like buying a pair of 501s and a great t-shirt. You should absolutely have those things. Those are foundational, and they will be evergreen. And then you want something fun to layer on top of it—something that is expressive of your style. It was very hard to find those things, and that was really the birth of At Present. It was this idea of, "Could we find the most exciting, the most interesting emerging and artistic jewelry designers, and could we be that matchmaker between them and the people who are like, 'Okay, show me something different. Show me something cool. Show me something that marks this moment in my life.'"
JJ (00:11:17): Which is exciting. I think, and we've talked about this before too, and I've talked about this with other people and other jewelry designers. Right now, this present moment, it feels like jewelry is super exciting. Not to say that it has not always been, but at this particular moment, jewelry feels so novel, so important. I think especially in this very chaotic time, it feels even more important in a way. And I think At Present, even the name itself, is such a beautiful sentiment. You said that you want to be a matchmaker for people to great jewelry, but you also want to celebrate these people in their present. So, can you talk to me about why you think, at this very moment, jewelry is so important? I mean, I think that’s...
MB (00:12:00): Preaching to the choir here, yeah.
JJ (00:12:02): But tell me about that. And then also, I mean, I think it's important also to talk through the name At Present. It's such an impactful story, and I think it's really important.
MB (00:12:11): Yeah, no, I think that's exactly right. It's really sort of playing off of that idea of what was missing in the world. The traditional business was built on these prescribed occasions, and it was generally a major advertising campaign telling a man, "You need to buy this shiny object for your female partner for these reasons. If you want to celebrate Valentine's Day, if you want to get married, if you want to celebrate a round-number birthday or anniversary, we have this particular thing for you." And there's something uniquely powerful about those gifts of love, and that is the foundation of the jewelry business. But it fundamentally misses just how powerful these objects are because it says you have to wait for impossibly perfect life moments, and you have to wait to be worthy of somebody else giving them to you.
MB (00:13:18): And I think both of those things are both anachronistic and kind of problematic, and they miss an opportunity for self-expression. And I think that's where you start talking about things that are really fun. So much of what you saw in the world was based on trying to sell somebody something to give. So do I really know what she's going to like? Well, I can't go wrong with this. If you're buying something for yourself, you get to lean really hard into the things that you love. And so the notion of At Present is about celebrating right now. It's a little bit of taking the idea of "A diamond is forever," which is sort of this old-world concept, and flipping it on its head. These things are enduring, but that's actually not the point. The point is not that this needs to be worthy of all time; it needs to be worthy of today. And today's the only place that we get to live. So, celebrate that.
JJ (00:14:22): Like I said, I think jewelry is so exciting and really important right now. But I think let's get even more micro about it, maybe. What are the specific things that you're seeing in the jewelry market? I know you were in Vegas; it looked amazing. What is really exciting you right now? What should everyone be keeping their eyes on and shopping for? That's the most important thing. What should people buy?
MB (00:14:46): Exactly. Let's get down to brass tacks here. We are excited about color. Maybe it's summer, maybe it's all the creativity that we're seeing, but I just like things that make me happy. So, bright colors. We're here in New York because we're doing a launch tonight with Fry Powers, one of our newest partners, who just has this bright, happy, and very contemporary and expressive view of the world. I think that's something we've seen a lot of. We've seen a lot of people playing with cool materials; we've seen a lot of things in blown glass that have done really well for us. You did a shoot with this very cool fish ring from Lizzie Fortunato that was like the runaway hit of the summer. Blown glass pieces from Keane, these really cool fruits from Notte, have done great for us in the last six months. It's just like these little bits of "Ah, okay."
JJ (00:15:54): Yeah, it just feels like, it seems from what you're saying, that the jewelry that's really popular right now has a sense of character. It's a little novel, which is really important. I think it's really interesting. And then let's even go a step further in terms of the jewelry. If I were trying to build out my collection right now, can you tell me what are the five pieces that you think everyone should have? Like, base level, I want to get into jewelry. I don't know where to start. These are the five things. Maybe let's do three.
MB (00:16:27): Five seems daunting. We'll start with three and see where we end up. I think that having a statement necklace is really foundational. Here is something that you can play with in a lot of different ways. We've seen layering continue to be a very strong trend, but it is, "Alright, here is my base piece, and here are the things that I'm dressing up or down around it." So having something strong as a base there. We see that fun, multiple ear piercings, people love doing different things, creating really cool stacks continues to be really, really strong. So, are there some of those elements that you're going to want to wear and never take off? I think people like both the really durable pieces but also like, "Alright, here's something that's fun. Here's something that's colorful." Rainbows are doing really well in earrings. So, I think an awesome necklace, an ear stack, and then, I dunno, I've been very excited about bracelets recently.
JJ (00:17:43): Oh yeah, I love a bracelet. I just got an amazing bracelet that I'm very excited about.
MB (00:17:44): From whom? Do you have it on right now?
JJ (00:17:51): Yeah, so this is a piece from James Banks.
JJ (00:17:53): For the audience, I'm taking a picture. It's really nice. It's really nice and sturdy.
MB (00:17:56): So, James Banks is a partnership between our friends Adam Shulman and Heidi Fink Nasher. Adam is here in New York, and Heidi...
JJ (00:18:06): It's very nice. Wave for the...
MB (00:18:09): ...is in Northern California. Everything that they do has some degree of movement or some degree of function. They do locks. This is a version they call "the vault," and it's actually made in part by a locksmith. You can see that there's actually a key element to it.
JJ (00:18:32): Wow. Okay, beautiful.
MB (00:18:35): So, as you put it on, you spin that, and that's the lock.
JJ (00:18:39): Which leads me to the next question: Should you take off your jewelry, or can you wear it in the shower? Can you sleep in it? Can you go in the ocean? What are your jewelry recommendations for taking care of your jewelry?
MB (00:18:54): I think it depends on what it is. Something that is gold and diamonds is very durable, so that's something you can wear all the time. If it's comfortable to sleep in it, by all means. You might want to clean it every once in a while if you're showering in it, but there's no reason you couldn't. There are some materials that you should be more cautious about. If you start talking about softer stones, if you're talking about opals, if you're talking about emeralds, if you're talking about things that are not as durable, those are things that you probably shouldn't be in the hot tub with or jumping in the ocean with.
JJ (00:19:37): Also, this is more of a selfish question, so I wear...
MB (00:19:44): It's your lunch; you can ask whatever you like.
JJ (00:19:45): I can do it. If this is my thing, I can do whatever I want.
MB (00:19:47): The benefit of having your own show.
JJ (00:19:49): Yes. So, my birthstone is a pearl. I feel like everyone... for the audience, my birthday's in June, so my birthstone is a pearl, and I always wear a pearl on this pendant. Should I be taking off this necklace every day because of the pearl?
MB (00:20:09): A pearl is definitely a piece that you want to be more careful with.
JJ (00:20:13): Yikes!
MB (00:20:14): So it depends on what you're doing. If you're rock climbing, you probably don't want it smacking against the wall. Is there any problem sleeping with it? No, the pearl came from the ocean originally, so I wouldn't be as concerned about that going in the water. But...
JJ (00:20:34): Oh, so showering with it is fine?
MB (00:20:38): If you're talking about water, it's fine. The things that you want to worry about are the other things—the soaps and the shampoos and all of those things could be problematic for your pearl. I think they often say with pearls, it's the first thing that comes off and the last thing that goes on. Hairspray is not something that you want to get on your pearl.
MB (00:21:00): So I would be a little bit more careful with your pearl. It's probably not the answer that you're looking for.
JJ (00:21:05): No. Oh, that's good for me.
MB (00:21:08): But you decide if this is the patina that you want. "I want this to be..." I think that's also part of the notion of our ethos—these are things that are meant to be lived in. One of the things that's been problematic about the way in which jewelry has been made so precious is that it's like, "Oh no, no, that's just something for fancy occasions." And people keep it in the safe, keep it in the drawer, and then have nowhere to wear it. It breaks my heart because these are pieces that are meant to be lived in. I'm a firm believer that a piece of jewelry is the least valuable at the moment when you buy it. It is through the life that it has living with you that it really achieves its value.
JJ (00:21:55): That's an amazing sentiment. I agree. I totally agree with you. The sentiment that jewelry should be bought to be lived in, but I'd never thought of it as it doesn't gain its value until you start living in it, which I think is a beautiful thing to think about. It gives more life to the piece, which is really special. I think it makes it even more personal. I think that's the other beautiful thing about jewelry. I mean, I love clothes; I adore clothes. But there does feel like there's something a bit more personal about jewelry and more timeless because you're not going to toss it away with the changing winds of trends and whatnot. I'm guessing you feel the same way.
MB (00:22:44): Yes. People often ask me, "Should I invest in jewelry? Is jewelry a good investment?" And I have to ask them, "What do you mean by investment?" If you mean, "Is this something that is going to provide you with an enormous amount of joy and satisfaction and gratitude and appreciation?" I can't think of anything that is a higher-yielding investment. If it's a question of, "Can I resell this to somebody at some point?" I have no idea. I have no idea what the price of gold is going to do. I have no idea what the price of diamonds is going to do. But I have 100% confidence that something you wear as part of your life will be more valuable to you and to the people in your life at some point down the line, without question.
JJ (00:23:37): I have another somewhat selfish question, but I think this is also really interesting. Could you explain how value is attached to a diamond or the price of gold? How do they determine that pricing? Or is this a secret?
MB (00:23:56): No, I mean, I think it's supply and demand, right? This is the foundation of any price. I went to graduate school in economics, so these sorts of questions about "What is something worth?" are really, really interesting to me. It's this balance between how many of these things exist in the world, how hard it is to get more of them, and how many people want it and at what rate they value it. There are lots of things that are very rare that have absolutely no value because nobody cares.
JJ (00:24:35): Like what?
MB (00:24:36): Oh, I dunno. I'm sure you could find all sorts of, "Here is a particular mineral; here's a particular gemstone that is found in one place in the world, and there are only six of them, but it's not very attractive. Nobody's ever done anything with it." So, like, okay, take it or leave it. Where the magic happens is where there is something that is limited and people go, "Oh, this is actually very cool; I want this." So it is subject to the vagaries of the market. Diamonds are an interesting example. In the natural diamond world, these are things that developed in the earth over hundreds of millions or billions of years and are found in places where they are very difficult to extract. So there's a limited supply of diamonds that you can find at a prevailing market price. Then you have everything that's happening in the lab-grown diamond market, which has completely changed the value equation because you can effectively print these in a factory.
MB (00:25:50): I'm kind of fascinated at the moment by the question of, "Are these the same thing?" You would think it's an objective question, but it's actually not. "Is it the same thing?" Well, objectively, it is the same material—this is carbon, it's crystallized carbon, and it has a very similar or identical atomic structure. It was made over a very short period of time in a warehouse using a lot of electricity. Here's something that is chemically identical that was made in the earth, spit out by a volcano, and extracted with great care and attention. Are those the same thing? I don't know.
JJ (00:26:42): There are so many... It's really interesting you say that because I think lab-grown is such a growing industry. There are so many brands popping up that are solely focusing on lab-grown.
MB (00:26:54): You can do lots of really cool things when all of a sudden it's not thousands of dollars for a carat of diamonds. It's actually an opening for great creative expression.
JJ (00:27:06): Are the lab-grown diamonds affecting the price of natural diamonds?
MB (00:27:11): The answer seems to be that nobody really knows. There has been an enormous amount of market share taken by lab-grown diamonds. But the primary trend in the market has been that the price... We're talking about, "Alright, what is the value of something?" and that being the product of supply and demand. Demand has gone up for lab-grown diamonds, but the supply has gone up enormously more. So if you look at the price of lab-grown diamonds over the course of the last 10 years, it's dropped by a factor of 90 or 95%.
MB (00:27:50): So therein lies that investment question. "Is that a good investment?" If you bought a diamond to propose to somebody that you love, the value of that diamond is very strong. If you were trying to go out and sell that diamond today, well, you're probably not going to get what you paid for it if it's a lab-grown diamond. So, a good investment or a bad investment? I have bought a lot of jewelry in my life for myself, for my wife, and for lots of people in my life. I've never sold anything. I don't have any...
JJ (00:28:19): You've kept it all. How do you store it all? Do you have loads of jewelry? How do you store all that jewelry?
MB (00:28:25): The vault that Scrooge McDuck was swimming around in.
JJ (00:28:29): You just have that in your basement.
MB (00:28:30): That's very similar. That's where my children and my dog play. I dunno.
JJ (00:28:35): Wow. Also, I guess...
MB (00:28:37): The point being that I have no idea what the market value is for that. If I think about my personal balance sheet, that is not a monetary asset. If I think about my emotional balance sheet, it's a very strong asset. These are pieces of great value. Just thinking about all the things I'm wearing... My grandfather recently gave me some cufflinks.
MB (00:29:03): And these are... So, my grandfather, in the seventies and eighties, was a very strong believer that men should wear diamonds.
JJ (00:29:13): That's so, I feel, counterculture, especially in the seventies.
MB (00:29:17): Totally. And he was particularly of the belief that if you are going to sell diamonds, you should wear diamonds. He's still happily alive, but he doesn't get dressed up anymore. He doesn't put on a suit and tie, he doesn't wear a tuxedo anymore.
JJ (00:29:34): Even though you're wearing a suit right now.
MB (00:29:35): I do, but he doesn't. And I wear suits a lot less often than I used to. But he gave me this beautiful set of cufflinks and matching tuxedo studs, and he goes, "Would you wear these?" I said, "Absolutely, I would wear these." I have no idea what he paid for it; I have no idea what the price of gold or the price of diamonds was at that point, but I know that this is something that he wore while he was building his jewelry business. So as I build a jewelry business, that's very powerful for me.
JJ (00:30:08): And then, also, what watch are you wearing? I feel like you talked about watches because your family started in watches. I feel like we have to also mention what watch you're wearing.
MB (00:30:16): So I love watches, and I actually wrote a dissertation on the history of Swiss watchmaking.
JJ (00:30:22): Is it available for everyone to read?
MB (00:30:24): I can send it to you if you would like to share it.
JJ (00:30:26): I would love to.
MB (00:30:27): It's actually a really interesting story, which is not what you asked, but I'll give you the synopsis of it. Watches, particularly high-end Swiss mechanical watches, are objectively inferior to every other means of timekeeping.
JJ (00:30:46): How so?
MB (00:30:46): So we're talking about objective versus subjective value. We have iPhones sitting on the table here that tell far better time than my watch.
JJ (00:31:00): Oh, really?
MB (00:31:01): Yes, by orders of magnitude. Timekeeping is fascinating. You're getting an unsolicited thesis today on the history of timekeeping, but that is what you're going to get. In order to keep time, all you need is something to happen at a constant rate. If you think about it, sundials kept time because the sun rises and sets at a constant rate, so we can organize our day around that. Traditional watchmaking was about using all these moving parts and gears and springs to tell time. The fun thing about this is a mechanical watch I'm holding up—this is my Patek Nautilus, which was my 30th birthday present to myself.
MB (00:31:55): You can see the... Oh wow, that's really fun. The gold thing that's spinning around there is called the rotor. This is an automatic mechanical watch, meaning that it is winding a spring, and the spring gets let out. You can see there's a little wheel there that's oscillating, and that lets out that spring at a constant rate. That's what turns it into the keeping of time. For centuries, this was the process of timekeeping. You had lots of people working in lots of little workshops, most famously in Switzerland, right? In France, in England, and in all the more industrialized countries, and in the United States, trying to find better ways of measuring time that way. Then, starting in the 1950s and 1960s, they used quartz crystals oscillating and little microcomputers to be able to count how often the quartz crystal was oscillating. It was orders of magnitude more accurate than these mechanical pieces.
MB (00:33:05): So my research was about how this should have destroyed traditional watchmaking. These things were bought because they were accurate. Someone created a more accurate way of doing this, rendering this completely obsolete, except they stuck around. What they represent is not the accuracy of timekeeping; it's a piece of jewelry. Someone once described it as a piece of jewelry that has a functional alibi. "I need to wear this because it tells me the time." There's a clock on the wall, two clocks on our phones, and a clock on my computer when I'm sitting at my desk, but "Yeah, this is what I really need in order to tell time."
MB (00:33:51): What it turned out is there's something more interesting at play here, which is that these are pieces of art, these are pieces of craftsmanship, these are things that tell a story about who I am, about who I want to be, about what community I want to be a member of, about my appreciation for a long craft history. My obsession with mechanical watches very much comes out of that.
JJ (00:34:19): Well, I'm so excited to definitely read this dissertation.
MB (00:34:21): I will send it to you. Let me know what you think.
JJ (00:34:24): So when it comes to clothing, besides jewelry, what are you looking towards? What are you shopping for? You have a very nice collection of pieces I'm putting together.
MB (00:34:37): I like things that... It's similar to jewelry. I like things that have a story. I don't know the makers in clothing the same way that I know the makers of jewelry. When I buy jewelry, I buy it from people I know and whose worldview I'm sympathetic with. Whether it's Adam Shulman with my bracelet or these rings, which are both made by my friend Lauren Detelli, who's this extraordinary goldsmith in Hermosa Beach, California. I just like their outlook on the world. I think the same thing is true when I'm thinking about clothing, accessories, or shoes, which is another kind of black hole of...
JJ (00:35:22): Are you a big shoe person?
MB (00:35:23): I love shoes.
JJ (00:35:24): Oh, what shoes are you wearing right now?
MB (00:35:26): I am wearing some Alden Cordovan.
JJ (00:35:29): Oh, fantastic. And they're a nice black, right?
MB (00:35:33): Yeah, they're kind of sort of... there's a maroon or something. There's some color that they get very excited about.
JJ (00:35:43): I see you're also not wearing socks. Have you seen the big debate about socks versus no socks?
MB (00:35:50): Yeah. And I don't know, generationally you and I might be on different ends of the spectrum on this. I saw this was the great, in this world full of division. This is the key division in culture now is...
JJ (00:36:01): So I'm guessing you're a no-socks person.
MB (00:36:03): I'm a no-socks person during the summer, and maybe it's because I live in Seattle, where most of the time you have to be bundled up. I definitely had a sock era, like...
JJ (00:36:17): The crazy funky socks.
MB (00:36:18): Yeah, I was in London during the Paul Smith stripe sock era. I have a drawer full of Paul Smith stripe socks, which still, again, are things that make you happy and have color. But if there's an opportunity for me to wear loafers when it's 90 degrees outside without socks, I take great delight in that.
JJ (00:36:41): This may surprise you, but I actually prefer no socks.
MB (00:36:46): But you're a sandal person, right?
JJ (00:36:47): I love a sandal, but even with a loafer or... It also depends on the outfit. Somack, who I interviewed too, who is the creative director of Alex Mill, we talked about socks as well because he used to be the assistant to the sock designer back at J. Crew when he first started. Which I didn't even know that was a...
MB (00:37:09): Great title. I know.
JJ (00:37:10): I'm like, these titles are kind of fantastic, but we were talking about socks, like...
MB (00:37:16): George Costanza, right?
JJ (00:37:17): Yeah, it's like who came up with it? The sock really can make or break an outfit because if you're wearing a pattern sock, which I'm not a big fan of, it has to be a solid color, but it can really elevate or really take down the outfit. It's a really high-stakes choice to make or break an outfit. So if possible, I can get away with no socks. I love no socks and not those little socks that are no-show. I don't like those.
MB (00:37:52): They don't work very well. The concept is intriguing, but I have never found those. And I'm like, yes, I feel better wearing these.
JJ (00:37:58): They always fall off your foot. You should just not wear socks. Okay.
MB (00:38:03): And I read somewhere recently, it was funny, I was thinking about this and I said, "What is the story?" Everybody's like, "It's going to be bad for your shoe." And somewhere I read—and I have no idea if this is true—that if you have something that's made out of a nice leather, the leather will breathe. The real problem is if you are sweating in something that is not real quality. Whatever, I have no idea if that's true, but I like that as a story. And that's my justification for continuing to buy nice shoes.
JJ (00:38:30): I love that. I am going to carry on that.
MB (00:38:34): Stories are better when you don't know whether they have any veracity to them.
JJ (00:38:38): So outside of the fashion of jewelry, what else? What is your perfect day outside of the responsibilities of running a business and shopping? Because it seems like...
MB (00:38:50): Shopping is the most important. That is the most important responsibility.
JJ (00:38:52): Shopping...
MB (00:38:54): Somewhere in there, I do attempt to spend time and take care of my children.
JJ (00:39:00): How many kids do you have?
MB (00:39:02): I have two kids. I have an 8-year-old son and a 4-year-old daughter. They're utterly delightful and very amusing. But my perfect day... I have a perhaps unnatural love for really long plane flights.
JJ (00:39:23): Really?
MB (00:39:23): Yes.
JJ (00:39:24): Have you gone to Australia?
MB (00:39:26): I have never been to Australia. I have been to Africa, the Middle East, and Asia, but I have never been to Australia.
JJ (00:39:34): So what's the longest flight? Is it to China, I'm guessing?
MB (00:39:37): So I went at the beginning of this year to the Middle East and I flew from Seattle to Dubai. It's 14 and a half hours. My perfect day is getting on a very long flight with a very large stack of periodicals. I love magazines, I love newspapers, and if I could sit on a plane for 14, 18 hours and just be totally isolated from the world—the incursion of wifi onto airplanes has sort of ruined my perfect day because it used to be that you weren't even taunted or tempted to check in and look at email and see if there's something on Slack. There was nothing that I could do other than sit here and read my giant stack of magazines. But that's my happy place.
JJ (00:40:31): A plane. What is your preferred plane? Because I'm slowly getting into... I went to an astrologer, random fact, I went to an astrologer for the first time this year, which was very scary because of how I grew up—very religious and it was a big taboo. So the astrologer told me that in my chart she saw moving and she saw travel, which so far it's happening. There is travel happening. So what's your preferred flight? But also, do you have any travel secrets? What's the Marc 101 of flying?
MB (00:41:10): This is, I dunno, maybe embarrassing to admit, but one of my great passions is travel planning and particularly travel planning using airline and credit card miles. I spend a disproportionate amount of time trying to find great deals to go somewhere. I would take a trip just because I found a great ticket using airline miles to go somewhere. So I plan lots of trips, the vast majority of which I never take.
JJ (00:41:45): What do you mean?
MB (00:41:46): Different people have different outlets for stress and relaxation. Planning travel, for whatever reason, is one of my things I love.
JJ (00:41:55): So do you book everything, or do you just plan?
MB (00:41:59): Sometimes I book them, and then they just never go. Yeah, they'll cancel it.
JJ (00:42:02): Okay, alright. Do you ever just give it away to someone? Like, "Hey, I just planned this. I don't feel like going. Do you want to go?"
MB (00:42:09): I should at some point. It's harder to rebook because you asked for all the details on this. To change the name on it is actually not easy.
JJ (00:42:16): Oh, really?
MB (00:42:17): What you're saying is maybe I should just start booking trips in your name.
JJ (00:42:20): That would fulfill the prophecy of the astrologer.
MB (00:42:23): We need to make sure that the astrologer gets paid off here.
JJ (00:42:25): Yes, yes, yes.
MB (00:42:27): No, I mean, I have been really fortunate to travel to a lot of different places, and I like walking around. So, what is the rest of the perfect day? Take the long flight. I get somewhere, preferably a big city, and I have no plans other than walking out the front door and seeing what I find along the way. That's one of the reasons I love New York. You never know what you're going to find when you're walking down the street. I love Tokyo. I love that, both as a city and so many cool things about Japanese culture. My guess is that you would probably find great satisfaction in that.
JJ (00:43:09): After I had my astrology reading, I also got a tarot reading.
MB (00:43:13): And how similar were they?
JJ (00:43:15): They were pretty similar. My astrology one, I was more like, "This is what I want to talk about." It was three big things. We only had an hour. The tarot reading was much longer, and I was just like, "Tell me what you see in the cards." And she told me not to go to Tokyo because I'll never come back. And I was like, I don't know. Is that...
MB (00:43:34): And is that a good thing or a bad thing? If you find goodness, then...
JJ (00:43:40): I was like, that kind of sounds fantastic. Great shopping. I've heard fantastic things about the shopping, the subcultures. My boyfriend's mother used to travel a lot for work as well, and every time we get on the topic of travel, she's always like, "Jalil, you have to go to Tokyo," because of everything you said. It's like the people take everything to the next level. There's such a, I guess it's curation. Yeah, because there's an appreciation for it. It's like there's such a level of appreciation for it that is beautiful to see.
MB (00:44:14): And there's a definition or sort of a commitment to craft that I think is different than in a lot of other places. Have you ever seen the documentary "Jiro Dreams of Sushi"?
JJ (00:44:28): No.
MB (00:44:29): You haven't seen this? This is one of the greats. If you are a fan of commitment to a craft, this is the story of—I think he's still alive—this guy's name is Jiro Ono, who has a very small sushi counter in the subway station in Ginza. This was the first sushi restaurant in the world to receive three Michelin stars. This is someone who has spent their entire life perfecting a singular craft. This documentary, which came out 10 or 15 years ago, does such a beautiful job of demonstrating what it means to be this committed to doing a particular thing. I don't generally like sweeping cultural generalizations, but that seems to be more prominent in Japanese culture than in a lot of other cultures—a sort of commitment to, "This is the thing that I do, and I'm going to keep incrementally improving on it for every day of my life." You just see a lot of those kinds of things.
JJ (00:45:40): It's amazing. Well, this has been such a fascinating conversation. I feel like I learned a lot about jewelry. I hope everyone else learned a lot about jewelry. And, of course, since this is "Consider Yourself Cultured," we have three questions.
MB (00:45:54): Before we get to that, you offered that I can ask you questions.
JJ (00:45:56): Okay. Yes.
MB (00:45:57): You asked a really interesting question about basically why jewelry matters. I feel like I am in Seattle, surrounded by a lot of very practical tech people who are like, "Alright, these are the things that we do that are based on reason." They go, "What you are doing is gratuitous. It is superficial." Clearly, I don't believe that, insofar as I have dedicated my life to it. But why does what we do matter?
JJ (00:46:40): That's a great question.
JJ (00:46:46): I think, actually, yes, there is a frivolity to all of this—the clothing, everything. There is a frivolousness to it; there isn't a true necessity to it. But that doesn't mean it doesn't matter. I think it matters because, specifically if I think about jewelry, I think jewelry can carry such a history. When I think about jewelry, I think of heirlooms, and the idea of an heirloom is to pass something down, to keep the family alive, to keep a memory alive. I think that is very important; I think it's priceless. You can't put a price on things like that. Also, I think it's expression. You talked about the man in the gray flannel suit, which Thom Browne has so wonderfully subverted. It's fighting against conformity. I think especially in this day and age right now, where I think about what's happening in the world, there is this push for people to conform to an idea, to conform to a look.
JJ (00:47:49): I think that jewelry, fashion, and all these elements, at their best, fight against that. Because without individuality—and, of course, you can debate what that means and whatever—but without individuality, where do we progress in a culture? We don't move the needle forward if we're all looking and dressing and thinking the same thing. In order for change to happen, which is the root of fashion and the root of jewelry, there is a change built into it. You have to have individuality. I think that's where fashion and all these things come into play. Yes, there is a frivolous element to it because you need clothes, of course, to survive. But in the reality of this...
MB (00:48:37): Probably not the clothes that we're talking about.
JJ (00:48:39): This is...
MB (00:48:40): It's not primarily shielding us from the elements.
JJ (00:48:42): No. In fact, I am exposing myself to the elements in what I'm wearing right now. But it makes me happy. I am also wearing it because it's a small designer, Henry Zankov. I think what he's doing is really important, and he has such a storied history. So to wear his piece, it's to show that to the world and everything like that. And I'm wearing Fry Powers. I'm wearing this beautiful heart ring.
MB (00:49:04): Love that ring. Yeah, it's a...
JJ (00:49:05): It's a cocktail ring, which I feel is very vintage, which I love—vintage. I think that's also really important to bring to the present. It's full of color, and it just is really happy. It just makes me really happy. And that's, I think, also the important thing about life. I think that clothing, I think jewelry, there's happiness. Why would you buy something if there's a note of sadness? These are things to make us happy, not necessarily to forget or not think about what's happening in the world, but to the point of At Present, to celebrate where we are right now. And that is my answer.
MB (00:49:48): That's great.
JJ (00:49:50): I think I did a lot of circles, but at the root of it, these things are important because they help us get through the day.
MB (00:49:58): It's so interesting. We launched At Present in the summer of 2020, and we were building this during chapter one of COVID. When this started, we were cooking this up just as the whole world fell apart. We asked, "Is this the thing that we should be working on right now?" from a couple of perspectives. One, there are bigger and more important problems in the world. And two, when the world falls apart, what do people stop buying? These sorts of discretionary items. We looked at it and said, "We still think that in the long run, this is the kind of thing that people want to buy, and this is the way in which they're going to shop." So we proceeded—maybe we went a little bit slower. And then a funny thing happened: it was the best time in the world to be in the jewelry business because nobody had anything else to spend money on.
MB (00:51:03): They were looking for doses of joy. They weren't traveling, they weren't going out to eat, they weren't getting dressed most of the time. But your entire world consisted of a Zoom rectangle, and having an awesome pair of earrings was just a little bit of solace in the midst of a world that felt totally chaotic and horrible. We saw extraordinary success right out of the gate because we were offering these little packages of joy. In those moments when checking to see whether you got a package was the most exciting activity of the day, we were the bringers of goodness.
JJ (00:51:44): Yes, those packages... I mean, I love shopping, but during COVID, I shopped more than I've ever shopped before, and it's amazing. Do you have any other questions before...
MB (00:51:58): No, no, you have...
JJ (00:51:59): That's the one question.
MB (00:52:03): ...but I like your answer a lot.
JJ (00:52:05): Oh, thank you. Thank you. So I have three final questions to wrap up that I ask everyone to wrap up every interview. The first one is, who is the most cultured person?
MB (00:52:20): The question I should have asked you is what does it mean to be cultured? Because it's such an interesting concept, but do I have to answer your question before I ask my follow-up?
JJ (00:52:30): I'll tell you right now because then that might help you. I think that's also the point of the newsletter. I think culture can mean something different to different people. I don't want my definition of culture to inform other people. I hope that what people get out of the newsletter and this podcast is that they leave with something they didn't know or with a different perspective. So I will let you determine what your idea of culture is to inform your answers.
MB (00:53:10): I think the most cultured person that I know has to be my grandmother. We grew up next door to my grandparents, and their house was in between our house and the bus stop. I spent pretty much every afternoon growing up with my grandmother. My grandmother is this brilliant, polymathic person who has such a broad frame of reference on everything. She is a philosopher and a theologian and loves collecting art. She introduced me to the world of ideas and manifested a curiosity and enthusiasm about curiosity that I think has been one of the animating elements of my life. So many of my frames of reference just come from her. She is 92 years old, still sharp as a whip, and has a depth and appreciation and love of the world unlike anybody that I have ever met. So I think that's beautiful. That's a definition of culture that I would hope to emulate in my life.
JJ (00:54:34): I think it's amazing. The next question is, what is your latest cultural obsession?
MB (00:54:42): When we watch TV, we watch a lot of bad TV.
JJ (00:54:47): Define bad TV.
MB (00:54:48): Well, I guess there's bad TV, and then there's really bad TV. I can't do any of the reality shows. So if that's its own category of special, that's... I can't do that. But we just finished the most recent season of Outer Banks, which I think is really silly and really enjoyed that. The other thing that I just watched that I loved recently—do you know the comedian John Mulaney?
JJ (00:55:21): Yes, love him.
MB (00:55:22): He did this unbelievably bizarre show on Netflix. There were six episodes of this at the beginning of May called "Everybody's in L.A."
JJ (00:55:25): Yes, yes.
MB (00:55:27): Have you seen this?
JJ (00:55:28): I have not seen it, but I've heard people have raved about it.
MB (00:55:30): You're just watching this, and it's just pure absurdism, and it's absolutely brilliant. I haven't seen anything in a long time that gave me so much amusement as watching this variety show of chaos that he masterminded.
JJ (00:55:42): That's amazing. And then the last question—and I'll also add that to my list because you're not the first person that's recommended it, so I need to watch it now. The last question is a three-parter: What should everyone read, watch, and listen to in order to consider themselves cultured?
MB (00:56:02): The "read" part is challenging for me because for much of my life, I have been a news junkie. To the point about my happy place being with a stack of magazines and newspapers, if I had my happy thing, if I had six daily newspapers that I could read in physical form, I would love that. I think that's probably part of being cultured, which is being involved in the culture. Honestly, I've just found everything going on in the world to be very oppressive. I have a hard time emotionally handling all of the inputs that once were very interesting and very central to my world. I will say that I actually think that is a key part of being an engaged member of the polity. It breaks my heart because that's just something that I can't do with the degree of fervor that I would like to be able to.
JJ (00:57:10): So is that going to be your "read"? Is your read still the newspaper, even though...?
MB (00:57:15): Yeah.
JJ (00:57:15): Okay. So any particular newspaper or just any newspaper?
MB (00:57:22): I have a certain love of all things British, so I actually still get the Financial Times in paper form at home. I think I'm the last person in the world that still gets the salmon-colored paper.
JJ (00:57:37): It's a beautiful color.
MB (00:57:38): It's a great color. To sit with the weekend FT—if I have two hours on a Saturday, if I'm not on an 18-hour flight—if I can make a cup of tea and sit and read the weekend FT from cover to cover, I can feel like I am globally cultured after that.
JJ (00:57:55): Oh, fantastic. So reading the Financial Times, I do adore it. It's very elevated. And then what should everyone watch?
MB (00:58:08): I would recommend that John Mulaney show as something to watch. Does that make you generally cultured? I don't know.
JJ (00:58:14): It seems like it's a part of culture.
MB (00:58:16): It's a part of culture. I don't know if there's anything on a higher level that is emblematic of culture at the moment.
JJ (00:58:27): I think that's perfect. And then what should everyone listen to?
MB (00:58:30): I am a big fan of podcasts. Some of my best friends are the hosts of a show called "Acquired," which is...
JJ (00:58:39): Oh, yes. This is an amazing show. Everyone talked about... the Hermes episode. Everyone. Yes.
MB (00:58:44): Yes. So Ben and David are very dear friends, and I think that they have done just this masterful job of storytelling. They had a great feature on the front of the Wall Street Journal maybe a month or two ago. But if people haven't listened to "Acquired," I would strongly endorse that. I also love Ezra Klein for popular events or things going on in the world. He's a New York Times columnist and has a New York Times podcast. I feel like I'm smarter every time I listen to him.
JJ (00:59:20): Yes, I would concur. I adore both of those answers. I listen to both of them. So I'm...
MB (00:59:29): We have convinced each other that we are both cultured. At least we got that.
JJ (00:59:32): I'm the most cultured. Well, no. Well, thank you so much, Marc, for being a part of this. I'm very excited. I hope everyone shops the array, shops everything. This was really informative, and I really appreciate it.
MB (00:59:44): And just to say at the end, what a joy it's been to work with you and how much fun it is to see somebody who is doing something with uniqueness and singularity of vision and voice. I just feel so grateful that we had the opportunity to find you and work with you. I'm just so delighted to see all the fun things that you create and put out into the world because you're amazing.
JJ (01:00:09): Oh, Marc. Well, thank you. The feeling's mutual. The feeling's mutual. Well, that is all. Thank you so much.
MB (01:00:14): Thank you for lunch.
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