Lunch Break with Somsack Sikhounmuong at Il Buco

Welcome to Lunch Break, my exciting interview series where I chat with fascinating people over lunch!

There have been some exciting developments, thanks to my discovery of new features on Substack! I'm thrilled to announce that everyone can now listen to the podcast (yes, we can officially call it a podcast now, haha!). Paid subscribers will enjoy the full interview, while free subscribers will receive a portion of it.

Additionally, I’ve taken steps to enhance your experience by providing a complete transcript of each interview. Within the transcript, you'll find embedded links and photos related to the discussion. Paid subscribers will gain access to even more exclusive links and photos! By popular demand, “Lunch Break” will now arrive in your inbox every other Thursday at noon, perfectly timed for your lunch break.

Now, enough with the logistics—let’s dive into today’s guest!

I won't dive too much into

somsack sikhounmuong

‘s background, as we explore that in-depth in today’s episode. However, I will mention that he is currently the Creative Director of Alex Mill and previously served as the Chief Design Director at J.Crew, and when he is not at work he is at the ceramic studio, and when he’s not there you can find him working on his Substack "Somstack.”

Somsack is so eloquent and inquisitive, that at one point during the interview it felt as if we had switch roles of “interviewer” and “interviewee!” ( Oh, and I should mention that this interview took place on my last day at Saks, and paid subscribers will hear a bit more about that.) Somsack’s curiosity extends beyond his expertise, and I could have easily talked with him for hours but lunch breaks are only so long. Still, within that hour, I left feeling truly inspired.

I hope you all enjoy the episode. Please let me know your thoughts—the response to “Lunch Break” has been fantastic, and I want to ensure it remains the best it can be. Leave your comments and DM me with suggestions for improvement and guest recommendations.

(And if you or someone you know has audio expertise, please reach out—I have some questions, haha!)

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This interview has been edited and condensed.

Jalil Johnson: Thank you so much, Somsack, for joining me. Are you ready to get started?

Somsack Sikhounmoung: I'm ready, yeah. I'm all ready. Yeah.

JJ :Thank you so much for joining me for lunch break.

SS:Of course.

JJ:So we're at il Buco.

SS:Yes.

JJ: Why are we at il Buco?

SS: I'm a huge fan of il Buco. I guess the main restaurant is on... Are we on Bond Street or Great Jones?

JJ: We're on Great Jones.

Shop my At Present array.

SS: Great Jones. So the original one is on Bond Street, and I just love going there. This is the sister one, and I just love how... I love the food, obviously. But I come here for lunch because it's just a little more casual, pop in, pop out, the dish or the menu is a little more concise and edited, which I always love.

JJ: Yeah.

SS: Yeah. So it's just great food, easy, casual, and quick.

JJ: Great. Well, I'm really excited to do this with you because one of your posts is all about food and then Rose [Anderson] has told me too, that you love to eat. So I was really anxious... Not anxious, that's the wrong word. But I was really excited to see where you picked, because I really trust your food picks.

So I'm going to say the way that I discovered you first was through Five Fits, which I will be joining you in that group. So Chris just shot me too.

SS: Oh, amazing.

JJ: And then from there Jenny [Olson] reached out to me about being a correspondent for Alex Mill and they told me about you, and then I get to meet you, at

Jess Graves

’ party to celebrate Alex Mill. And since then I've been looking at your Substack, it's really exciting. I want to talk about what made you want to get on there, but also just who you are, your interests, and how did you get here.

SS: Definitely.

JJ: So my first question, which I am taking from Plum Sykes, is what is your first experience with clothing? Wait, do you know this question?

SS: Did you just listen to her podcast with-

JJ: Lauren Sherman?

SS: Yeah.

JJ: Actually I was in person when she did the conversation with

Liana Satenstein

, and said it and I was like, "Oh, that's actually a fabulous question." She said this three times because she also said it in the podcast that Vogue does. Then she said it at Liana's, and then she said it at Lauren's. So this is the reoccurring... But it's such a good question.

SS: Oh, yeah. I'm a huge Plum fan. I was listening to Lauren's podcast with her, and I just told Lauren, I was like, "I can listen to Plum all day long." Just because she has so many crazy stories, and the way she tells them, the words she uses, I just love.

My first experience with clothes... I was born in Thailand and I immigrated to Canada when I was four, and I don't really remember clothes until I got to Canada. I do remember my mom telling me that when we got off the plane, it was April in Toronto, and April in Toronto, it was February.

JJ: Oh, that's terrible.

SS: So it was freezing. And we were coming from Thailand, so it was palm trees and beach and stuff like that. So I think I only had a T-shirt on, and that was it, because I had wet my diapers on the plane.

JJ: Oh, wow.

SS: Hi, how are you?

Waiter: Good. Can I grab you something to drink?

JJ: I'm fine with just water.

SS: Yeah.

JJ: And then I have to take a look at this menu.

SS: So we were sponsored by a group of church people in Oshawa, the little town that we came to. And so a lot of the clothes I had were given, they were hand-me-downs. So I remember there was this really great yellow T-shirt with Big Bird on it from Sesame Street and I just loved it so much. I had never seen anything... It was my first graphic tee, and I just loved the color of, it was a really buttery yellow, and it was big bird on a seesaw with the birds on the other side. And the funniest story is I still have it today.

JJ: Oh, fantastic.

Lunch Break with Sydney Utehdahl at The Fulton

SS: And it's in my bedroom on a teddy bear. It fits the teddy bear now. And so it just sits in my bedroom and I see it every morning. So it's just almost like a funny reminder of not where it came from, obviously, but how small I used to be, maybe, as a child.

Yeah, I still have it. I just loved it. I think it's probably one of those things I just kept. Every time we got rid of clothes, I just kept it.

JJ: And has that been with you with every place that you've lived?

SS: Yeah. Yeah. When I moved to New York, I took it with me. It was in my Parsons dorm, probably folded up, and everywhere. Yeah, it's always been with me on this teddy bear.

JJ: That's amazing. And then also in terms of the graphics, something else I find where you have a great tattoo collection. And do you think the graphics right there tie back to your love of tattoos, of also you have the Snoopy on your tote -

SS: Yeah. Yeah. I think that definitely has something to do with it. An attention to sort of the visual elements in design.

JJ: And did you study graphics at Parsons?

SS: Fashion design. Fashion design. But I remember too, just growing up, there was the revamp of Bazaar, Harper's Bazaar came out and it was Fabien Baron and the graphics on those pages, some of the layouts were just as beautiful as the photos. And I just remember seeing those. I was like, "Oh, wow." I've never seen a page that was just dedicated to a big 'H' or a big two. I think rarely were magazines, up until then... It was all photos, photos, photos and ads and all that stuff. But this was literally just one page, the header or if there was a title about the story, it would be a big 'S' or a big... To start off the story.

JJ: Yeah. And so what got you into fashion? So also, were you always interested in fashion when you were in Toronto, and what made you want to move to New York?

SS: I knew I wanted to do something artistic. I was always drawing, I was always sketching little doodles here and there and painting and all that stuff. But I also knew I didn't want to be in fine arts because I liked making money and surviving and eating and all that stuff. And I think fine arts just didn't... For some reason I knew that would be a little harder with fine arts. And I think with design, I didn't know it was going to be fashion design right away. I knew it was going to be something creative.

I was initially interested in architecture, but I knew that I liked having a problem to solve. I think with design, you're given a problem versus fine artists are put into a studio and you can do whatever you want. I knew that I wanted to, whether it be build a house or design a room or design a spoon that someone would use, but it had to be within these dimensions, and clothing was the same way. I was always interested in clothes. I didn't know I wanted to be a designer. My mom used to make us clothes. My grandma was a seamstress. She had a huge business. I was a huge fan of just watching them get dressed.

JJ: What were they always drawn to in terms of getting dressed?

SS: It was funny. It was more when they would go out on occasions and stuff. So they would bring out their traditional Thai outfits and put on the makeup and the earrings. It was very often the day-to-day was very basic, jeans and stuff. But when it was time to go to a wedding, I could sit there and watch them for hours and I would help them pick out stuff. So I think it was the transformation, maybe, that was the most fascinating to me. Like, "Wow. That's what you look like, mom, with your makeup?"

JJ: Yeah.

SS: When you go out, when you really give yourself a little attention. And then my sister was a huge influence too because she had always wanted to be in fashion design. And I remember the two of us as kids in the back of our classrooms, there would be old Vogue's that our teachers would bring in, to chop up, to cut and paste, to tear apart. We would flip through them and we wouldn't. We would take them, put them in our bags and take them home so we could read them. It just seemed too tragic to be destroying all these beautiful magazines in the back.

So we would take them home, we would read them, I would look at them. I remember just going through old Vogue's and just seeing Isaac Mizrahi or Marc Jacobs and Donna Karan. And every time I'd read their name, Parsons would be next to it. So I was like, "Oh, gosh. If you want to be a really great designer, I guess you have to go to Parsons."

And so when I finally got to the age of after high school, and applying to schools, I was like, "Maybe I do want to do a fashion design degree." I looked up Parsons. And a huge part of coming to Parsons was New York, because sometimes I think if Parsons was in just Cincinnati or anything, would I have wanted to go Parsons? I think it was the combination of Parsons and being in New York that really attracted me.

JJ: And you came here in '99, if I was not mistaken, right.

SS: '95.

JJ: ‘95.

SS: I graduated in '99.

JJ: Yes. Yeah. Okay. Same year I was born.

SS: That's great. Oh my gosh. Our intern the other day, I was like, "How old is your mom?" And he was like, "42." I was like, "Oh, wow. Okay. Your mom is younger than me by five years." Yeah.

JJ: And so how was New York in the nineties? Describe that.

SS: I think everyone who comes to New York, their first few years is always a huge experience. It was different than it is now, but I think the same probably amount of exhilaration that one felt then is probably equivalent to someone who just moved to New York now. I think back then it just seemed more... Without the internet, I think that's the big thing. Without the internet, we really had to figure out if we wanted to do something or go somewhere, we really had to research it or talk to people or go out and explore rather than just Googling something and, "Oh, five places come up. Let me pick."

Back then I remember when I first got here, I loved magazines, and so I was like, there must be some great magazine stores. So I opened up the Yellow Pages in a phone book, looked up magazine stores and had to travel across the city, Upper West Side. There was one on the Lower East Side and just go into each store and to look for things. So I think to me, it was more exciting. It was just a different level of excitement just because I had to really work and find what I wanted to find.

JJ: Now with that too, I'm just going to ask a stupid question, but is in your opinion New York better, then or now? Because I to add more to caveat, I've been here for seven years. I moved here for school and I also stayed here during the pandemic. So I've seen a New York pre-pandemic and post-pandemic, and the post-pandemic New York is totally different. It's almost more stressful in my opinion. And it has made me start thinking, "Is it the city that I wanted to move to?" And then I wonder, so you've been here since '95, so I just wonder, how do you feel? Do you feel like there's a big change or what?

Outfit ideas to get you through summer! (PT.1)

SS: Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I think even going to the East Village, I remember me and a bunch of friends wanted to go to East Village to some bar on Avenue A, and we had to take a taxi because we thought it was going to be too dangerous to walk through. So there was a level of mystery. There was a level of, I don't want to say danger, but it was just different. I think there was more angles of discovery, I think. Yeah, there was a different energy. I hear you about the pandemic thing too. I totally feel the same way. It's just the energy has changed.

JJ: What is it? That's the thing I'm trying to crack. It's like...

SS: There is a level of anxiety I feel now that I didn't feel before. I don't know. That's a good question.

JJ: We'll ruminate on that one.

SS: We'll figure it out.

JJ: Well then also, some more nineties questions. So in your opinion, where the best places to go out?

SS: There were really big clubs like Twilo and The Tunnel that we would go to. I remember we would set our alarms for three in the morning, wake up-

JJ: Three in the morning?

SS: Yes. Because we needed a disco nap and going any earlier than two in the morning was like, no one really went. So we would go. We'd get there at three. Obviously we were underage, but somehow we'd figured out how to get in. And then we would leave probably at seven in the morning or eight in the morning. And then sometimes go home and take a nap or go straight to the library at Parsons-

JJ: It was on a school night? No, this was-

SS: It was never on a school night. I wasn't that crazy. But it was probably on, let's say a Friday night or Saturday night and if I had to finish a project, we'd go straight to school the next day on a Sunday. And then there were small little places. I think in the East Village, Robots was a bar in the East Village that I loved. But it was the idea of these kids who were just trying to sneak into things and trying to find things and experience things that we were probably too young to... We shouldn't have been there. But it was fun to try and get inside.

JJ: And where do you like to go out now?

SS: I don't. Going out is probably dinner and that's it. And then dinner after 8:00 PM is probably something I don't want to do. It's just like... I know. I know. I just feel like I don't want to be that person but I am.

JJ: I feel you. I love a five o'clock dinner.

SS: Yes.

JJ: And going home at nine.

SS: And going home. And trying to get a reservation and you're later than six, it has been impossible in New York. It's just I don't have that energy to... I think I wrote in my recent Substack, the idea of having to set my alarm for midnight to make a reservation for 30 days ahead. I'm like, I don't have-

JJ: It's terrible.

SS: Yeah. Yeah. You want some of those?

Fluke Ceviche

JJ: Sure. I would love to. It's terrible. Well, perfect time thinking about this is lunch, it was such a big thing several years ago, not several years ago, like in the eighties. It's a part of New York and it's gone away. And so part of this newsletter is I'm posting that this reinvigorates, this

SS: Lunch culture.

JJ: Lunch culture. Because I think there's so many amazing places to experience at this time. And it fights against the culture of always being productive because I think with the onset of technology, we're always like, "I have to go back. I have to go back. I have to go back." And so this is a nice way to put the break in between your day.

SS: Yeah.

JJ: So from '99, you graduated and then you went to DVF, Diane von Furstenberg.

SS: I went to Diane von Furstenberg. It was my first job out of school. That was when she had her home shopping network line. So I worked on that with Diane. She lived upstairs and it was an open concept carriage house. And so we'd be on the second floor, she'd be on the third floor living. She'd come down in the morning with curlers in her hair. You'd see her before she left to go out at night. So we were part of her every day, which was very cool.

JJ: Yeah. Are you still in contact with her?

SS: I'm not, but it was interesting because you'd hear her watching the six o'clock news after she left the office. She'd walk upstairs and you can hear her living upstairs.

No, but she was great. She was great. She was smart, quick, had a beautiful eye. She had a crazy amount of clothes she would bring down. I remember she brought down a YSL couture, a couture piece. I've never seen a couture piece. I was used to Century 21 and Saks and stuff, but I'd never held a couture piece. She brought it down, she was like, "Take a look at this. Look at the construction." It was amazing. And it was the caliber of guests that would come through the house.

JJ: Yeah. Who was the most wow moment. Who was the person that really wowed you?

SS: Marisa Berenson, I think came in once.

Marisa Berenson and Diane von Furstenburg.

JJ: That's good.

SS: And took a tour around the office and just looked at what we were working on. Yeah, it was amazing. It was New York, a level of New York that I had never thought I would ever experience. But yeah, I was-

JJ: And then how long did you stay at DVF?

SS: I was there for probably a year and a half, and then I left, and then I started freelancing, and random places. And I remember my college friend was at The Limited, she was freelancing, and I was there with her and a friend of hers was at J. Crew and there was an opening at J. Crew that they asked if she wanted. And she was like, "No, I'm happy here. Do you want it, Som?" I was like, "Sure. I don't have a full-time job. Let me take a look." And so I went in and that's when I first met Jenna and I interviewed with Jenna, and that's how my career at J. Crew started.

JJ: And then you were there from 2000?

SS: Yeah, probably 2001. I started as a freelancer. I remember during the interview she asked what I wanted to do because they only had an opening in men's and accessories, and I didn't have experience in either. She was like, "But you decide what you want." They were very open to you creating your own path there. And I said, "Why not accessories?" And so then I started off as an assistant accessories designer doing socks.

JJ: Yeah. Oh, wow.

SS: There was an assistant to the sock designer.

JJ: Wait, what goes into designing a sock?

SS: The colors, the patterns, the yarn, the stitches.

JJ: Yeah.

SS: Yeah. Not that much. But as an assistant designer, you're like, "Oh, yeah. Let me do socks. If you want socks, I'm going to give you socks."

JJ: All the socks.

SS: Ruffles and pointelle stitches and leopard prints. Yeah, I went crazy.

JJ: Oh, that's fantastic. I think socks are really... Okay. What are your favorite socks. Now I have to ask.

SS: I just wear Nike sports socks. I used to be a crazy fan of Paul Smith socks. Even KAPITAL from Japan. I just recently gave away a whole bag of them. I don't know. It's just the idea of a crazy sock these days for me means then I have to pick the shoe that goes with the pant and goes with the sock.

JJ: It's a whole thing.

SS: It's a whole thing.

JJ: So you would always go for the pattern over just like a plain-

SS: Yeah. Yeah. Or a fun color. There were these socks that I got in Rome, and they're these silk socks that supposedly-

JJ: The Pope wears.

SS: The Pope wears. So I have a bag of those that I probably only wore once, and they were bright red and they were fun, bright red with a pair of penny loafers and a pair of jeans.

GAMMARELLI

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JJ: I'm so happy that you did this.

SS: Oh my gosh. Thank you. Lunch.

JJ: Lunch. To wrap up every interview, I ask all my guests the three same questions. So the first question is, who's the most cultured person you know?

SS: I'd say my sister. She works at Tory Burch.

JJ: I love Tory Burch.

SS: So she was a designer at Tory Burch. Also, I think to me, you can reference the movies that everyone's watching. You could send pictures of things that people have all been looking at. But she'll send weird things like jewelry designers or pictures of dresses or references of things that I've never ever seen before. And to me, that's the digging, the searching, when I've seen pictures of things or showing things to question what I think is cool, I love when that happens and she's always doing that. On top of always going to the ballet or the opera or movies, membership to the Park Avenue Armory. She's cultured in that way, but also on top of that, she's always underneath whatever's happening and just looking for things that are unexpected.

JJ: Fantastic. So what is your latest cultural obsession?

SS: I love going to house tours, but architectural tours.

JJ: Yeah.

SS: I was just in Chicago probably two weeks ago. I went to the Farnsworth House. I try to go to as many Frank Lloyd Wright houses-

JJ: Oh, yeah. I saw-

SS: As possible. It's like going to museum but it's different in that... I don't know. It's almost like a tour of design. Just things that people have thought about or problem solved, whether it be the windows or the way someone's figured out how to enter a house or how to hang a picture on the wall. They're just a different, really fun-

JJ: Have you been to the Frank Lloyd Wright house with the waterfall?

SS: Yeah. Yeah.

Somsack at Fallingwater.

JJ: How is that?

SS: Incredible.

JJ: Oh, amazing.

SS: It's like a pilgrimage of sorts.

JJ: And it's going to fall down, right?

SS: I think all of these houses have to go through levels of renovation yearly. Things are cracking, and of course they're going to crack. But I mean, you're building a house on the edge of a waterfall, it's going to crack. Because they're really telling, even being so close to the water with the humidity and the way water will get into cement and kick things apart. But yeah, it's outside of Pittsburgh. You fly into Pittsburgh and you have to drive for maybe an hour into the woods, and then it's just amazing the way you walk down the path and then all of a sudden it's-

JJ: There.

SS: Yeah, hiding in the woods.

JJ: Oh, fantastic. I'm hoping to go to Pittsburgh because someone randomly, this is a tangent, but I was talking to someone about how cities are all the same, and they told me that Pittsburgh is like a city with its own look and feel. It doesn't look like any other city.

SS: I would agree with that.

JJ: Okay. Well, I have to go to Pittsburgh.

SS: Why?

JJ: No, I have to.

Morel Cavatelli (Somsack), and a Cucumber Salad (me).

SS: Oh, you have to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a friend who just went too and she came back and she was like, "I want to move there." I was like, "Okay, that's a little much." But it's like.... Rose.

JJ: Yes.

SS: She wanted to move to Pittsburgh. It's old. It almost looks forgotten in strange way. It's industrial, but then it has all these really beautiful old buildings and it's quiet. But then it used to be this big, big industrial town. It's almost like it's been forgotten in some form, which I always love because I'm very romantic. Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. It has the Warhol Museum.

JJ: Yes.

SS: Where he's from. And flowing water.

JJ: Okay. And then the last question is, what should everyone read, watch, and listen to, to consider themselves cultured?

SS: I think what I'm reading a lot right now is the Puck.

JJ: Yes. I love Line Sheet.

SS: Yes. Line Sheet, Puck. The writing, Lauren's writing. I mean, I don't really read anything other than the fashion part.

JJ: Me too.

SS: Which I probably should. I mean, I subscribe and I'm just scrolling through all these other stories to get to Lauren. I'm like, "Maybe I should click on some of the other stories once in a while." The writing I just love and it's very conversational, which I love. It's the way that I talk about fashion and that's the way I want to be told about fashion. I don't want to read too much. It was reading and what else?

JJ: Watch.

SS: Watch. I DVR three shows. Top Chef, Jeopardy!, and maybe CBS This Morning. And maybe The French Open. If the tennis tournament is happening, those are probably the only shows I watch, so I'm not sure if I'm the best person. But CBS This Morning, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's probably the best show that no one watches.

JJ: Really? Why?

SS: Because it's on at nine in the morning on a Sunday and it just talks about the most normal things sometimes. They will profile people who are doing interesting things that no one really talks about or there will be a little bit of a news component to it. But I don't know, it's just been on forever. And I'll tune in. They'll do the profile like a movie star artist in a very quiet, slow way, which I appreciate.

JJ: Okay, so CBS This Morning.

SS: Yes.

JJ: And then what should everyone listen to?

SS: LCD Soundsystem.

JJ: L City Sounds System?

SS: LCD Soundsystem is my favorite band. I was just in Chicago last week again. I flew out to see them. I guess people called me an unoffical groupie. Yeah, so they really recently posted that they're going to be in LA in November. I've already started talking to friends like, "Who's going to fly in? We're going to go."

JJ: Did you buy the tickets?

SS: I don't buy the tickets before. I buy them the day of on StubHub or a resale site because then that just gives me a little flexibility in terms of what day do I feel like going, do I feel like going tonight? Maybe I'll go tomorrow rather than being held to it. But yeah, listen to LCD Sound System. It's great music.

JJ: Okay, perfect. I will. Well, thank you so much for being my guest.

SS: Thank you so much. This was so much fun. So much fun.