Lunch Break with Noah Rinsky at Zabar's

In a way, Old Jewish Men brought me back to Judaism. I first came across it when I saw

Liana Satenstein

post an Instagram story promoting a “Speed Schmoozing” event. Knowing she’d be there, along with the chance to engage in one of my favorite activities—meeting new people—I decided to buy a ticket. On the day of the event, I had no idea what to wear, so I threw on an Alaïa skater dress that I’d bought and resold about three times. After seeing a picture of myself in it recently, I thought, "Maybe I should buy it again?" But that’s beside the point.

At the event, I met Rabbi Matt Green, who would eventually become the rabbi I converted with, and the rest is history. I’ve since attended several OJM events, including one that was even covered by The New York Times. (Unfortunately, that was also the party where my vintage white leather Dior gloves were tragically ruined by cotton candy.) What I’ve noticed at these gatherings is a lively mix: a gaggle of old-timers, some of whom have been featured on the OJM account, and a wave of younger Jewish folks seeking new ways to connect—not just with people their own age or slightly older, but with their faith as well as the broader community, Jewish and non-Jewish alike.

When I sat down with Noah Rinsky, I shared a shorter version of this story. Over the course of our conversation, I learned so much about the Old Jewish Men universe and its quirky cast of characters: Dave, whose wife emailed Noah because she thought her husband needed something to do; Aaron, who responded to a Craigslist ad in 2021 and has stuck around ever since; and the latest addition, Bob, known for his love of Hermès ties.

Noah started the account in 2015 under the name dadaroundthehouse, chronicling the antics of his father. Later, the account evolved into Old Jewish Men, and it has since grown into a thriving business. Along with social media, they now have a website selling clever merchandise that reflects the humor of the account—and recently, they’ve added a book to the mix.

The Old Jewish Men’s Guide to Eating, Sleeping, and Futzing Around is a comprehensive handbook, written by Noah and illustrated by Dick Carroll, that humorously covers everything you need to know to consider yourself an OJM. I had the pleasure of chatting with Noah about the book and more, and where better to do it than over bagels (or in Noah’s case, a bialy) at the counter of Zabar’s?

---

Jalil Johnson (00:00): So, thank you so much, Noah, for joining me. Can you introduce yourself and tell everyone who you are, what you're doing, and what you do?

Noah Rinsky (00:08): Why I'm here?

JJ (00:09): And why you're here?

NR (00:11): My name's Noah Rinsky. I am the curator of an Instagram account called Old Jewish Men, and I wrote a book called The Old Jewish Men's Guide to Eating, Sleeping, and Futzing Around.

JJ (00:24): Yes.

NR (00:25): So, Jalil was nice enough to have me on his podcast to chat about the book and probably ask me other questions.

JJ (00:32): Yes, I'm very excited. I'm just taking out the book right now. It was really a fun read. It was really fun. And I think...

NR (00:40): You read it straight through?

JJ (00:41): I did.

NR (00:41): Wow.

JJ (00:42): I kind of...

NR (00:43): Sure. I mean, if you read it straight through, great. But it's a toilet book.

JJ (00:49): There are a lot of lessons in there. There's a lot that I want to talk about with the book, but I guess the natural start would be to ask you about Old Jewish Men. I kind of know about where it is, but just to give a synopsis to everyone that might not know Old Jewish Men and where the origins of it are.

NR (01:07): Wait, what's that?

JJ (01:08): I guess to give context to people that are not necessarily familiar with Old Jewish Men, what made you start it? When did it start?

NR (01:17): Oh, the account and stuff? Yeah, sure. So, the origin is, I was visiting my parents in the great state of Israel, Tel Aviv. I'm not Israeli—my parents retired there about 12 years ago. Anyway, my dad was trying to get some exercise and was downstairs in our basement kicking this cardboard box. I just started recording him and thought it was funny, so I made an account called Dad Around the House. I posted the video of him kicking the box, and a couple of other things—him napping and stuff. These were the early days of Instagram, but I still had people being like, "Whoa, what is this?"

(02:10): When I got back to New York, I was living on the Lower East Side with my brother on East Broadway. I just changed the account to Old Jewish Men because that seemed to be what people were thirsty for—not just my dad, but guys like my dad. I was living at that point in the epicenter of Old Jewish Men country in lower Manhattan. Yes. I would have to ask somebody who still lives there if it really still exists like it did, like the old Jewish men in that neighborhood, East River people. It's the other side of Dime Square.

JJ (02:48): Yeah. Yes. Is there still a high population of Jewish people there?

NR (02:54): Yeah, if they didn't die out. It was a really old community even when I was there. We were going to shul and stuff, and yeah, it was a really elderly community.

JJ (03:05): Were you born and raised in New York?

NR (03:06): I'm not, actually. I was raised in Colorado.

JJ (03:09): Really?

NR (03:09): Yeah.

JJ (03:10): Colorado. When did you move to New York?

NR (03:12): 2011.

JJ (03:14): What made you want to move to New York?

NR (03:16): A series of mistakes, I'd say.

JJ (03:19): Do you want to talk about those mistakes?

NR (03:21): No, I don't have any big plans to move here or anything. My brother was already living here. He invited me to come share this studio apartment with him, and I didn’t have a whole lot else going on, so I moved here kind of on a whim. I’d seen a lot of—well, we don’t have to keep talking about Woody Allen movies. I’d seen enough Woody Allen to want to move to New York or be intrigued by it.

JJ (03:47): What do you think are the qualities of an old Jewish man? I guess this naturally leads into the book, because I think the book lays out a more analytical way. But just the heavy hitters—five points—what are the qualities you need to be an old Jewish man?

NR (04:09): Well, nothing's ever good enough, except what you're saying in that moment. You’ve got to know how to tell a story, and you don't really care. It's not even that you don't care who's listening; you're going to tell the story no matter what. I think being an old Jewish man means you don’t even care enough to try to read the room. What’s the point? You’ve got something to say. Old Jewish men are going to interrupt you, talk over you. If they don’t think you're listening, they're just going to talk louder. They're not going to change course. They don’t negotiate—it’s their way or the highway. They prioritize comfort. Comfort is a huge, huge thing. I think comfort is something that really powers that... definitely powers me. But you're always kind of fighting against comfort too, because my dad used to say, "Make the decision absent of fear. Do the thing you’re going to do. Try not to let fear enter the calculation." Dave, the guy that's kind of the mascot of Old Jewish Men...

JJ (05:21): Yes. How did you meet Dave?

NR (05:22): Dave? His wife actually emailed me. We were doing a lot of stuff in the New York Post, and I think Dave’s wife saw it, caught wind of it, and she emailed me and said, "My husband just sits around all day watching baseball. You should get him involved." Take my husband, essentially. But Dave... he's very zen. It's weird. Then he'll say stuff to me. I was hanging out with Eli the other day, our intern, and he said to us, "I usually don't fall asleep until three in the morning. I'm always worried." I said, "Worried about what? It doesn't seem like you worry about anything." But I think he’s just sort of—everyone's got their things, anyways.

Is NYFW alive or dead in the water?

JJ (06:12): Are you worried about anything?

NR (06:14): Everything.

JJ (06:14): Everything.

NR (06:15): Everything.

JJ (06:16): What are you excited about? Let’s make it positive. What are you excited about?

NR (06:19): Well, the other thing about old Jewish men is the hypochondria. Which is classic. You're not an old Jewish man unless you're a hypochondriac.

JJ (06:29): That’s very true.

NR (06:31): Or at least, not even hypochondria—you just have to get off on talking about it. It’s like a pills-on-the-table sort of mentality.

JJ (06:38): Yes.

NR (06:39): You put your pills on the table and let people know what's wrong with you.

JJ (06:41): Yes.

NR (06:42): And you don't care about talking about the kidney stone that you passed 20 minutes ago or whatever.

JJ (06:47): Well, that's funny you said that. I was talking to Larry Schlossman, who was a guest on Lunch Break, and I talked about Judaism. What I really love about it is that there is that acknowledgement of the reality of life. It’s not afraid of the bittersweetness of life. And I think that’s very much that "pills-on-the-table" vibe—like, why hide it? This is what's happening in real life, and we're going to talk about it. And I think that also fights against the fear in a way.

Lunch Break with Larry Schlossman at Gemma [FREE PREVIEW]

NR (07:19): Yeah, I think that's true.

JJ (07:21): Yes.

NR (07:22): And there’s really... there's that chapter in the book about the archetype that’s "possibly Gentile."

JJ (07:28): Yes.

NR (07:29): And to me, it's such a gentile characteristic to pretend like this isn't happening.

JJ (07:34): You’re like, a W.A.S.P.?

NR (07:35): If you’re not discussing the thing that’s happening, you’re not really living. I think... why are we both sitting here pretending that you’re not 400 pounds? You know what I mean?

JJ (07:47): I’m currently not 400 pounds.

NR (07:52): Why is this not a thing? You know what I mean? I think that old Jewish men are willing... it’s like Kramer in Seinfeld. He’d be like, "Well, your nose is crazy." Remember that? Or whatever. Jerry was dating some woman or something...

JJ (08:05): I’ve only actually seen a handful of episodes.

NR (08:07): Oh, really?

JJ (08:07): Yes.

NR (08:08): Well, I mean, Kramer’s not really Jewish in the show. I mean, I don’t know. It’s hard. I don’t know. He’s not Jewish in the show, but he is.

JJ (08:14): I feel like everything is coded like that. Question mark, maybe? I don’t know. I think this is a perfect way to start talking about the book. The first thought that came to mind when I looked at the book or read it was The Preppy Handbook, and so I’m wondering...

NR (08:31): Never heard of it.

JJ (08:33): Really? Are you joking?

NR (08:34): I’m joking.

JJ (08:38): My question was, were you kind of thinking of that when you were putting together the book?

NR (08:42): I had to run next to it. The Preppy Handbook was something that I thought about a lot, and I had it on the table a lot of times when I was writing.

JJ (08:52): How’d you find it? They’re really hard to find.

NR (08:54): They’re very hard to find. At first, I just had PDFs of it, and then my publisher found an old copy. It’s out of print. We share the same publisher, actually.

JJ (09:04): I was going to ask if it was the same publisher, also because there was a whole line of... you probably know this... after the Preppy Handbook, there was The Yuppie Handbook, which I have and I love. But this is now adding to that legacy, which is really exciting.

NR (09:23): Yeah. I don’t know who did it better. I don’t know. Lisa Birnbach... I don’t know what she’s going to say.

JJ (09:32): I don’t know. Did she get a copy?

NR (09:34): Yeah, I sent her one email. I didn’t hear anything back. Maybe I should email her again.

JJ (09:39): Yeah, email her again. What’s the deal? But no, it’s a really exciting book, and the way that it’s broken up is interesting. Part of it gives archetypes for types of old Jewish men. So, you have the Tough Guy, the Possible Gentile, and my personal favorite, the Soft West Coast.

One of OJM Archetypes illustrated by Dick Carroll.

NR (09:59): Yeah, Soft West Coast.

JJ (10:00): Yeah, Soft West Coast. My favorite. I love his outfit. So, you have that in there. Then you also have chapters that kind of give you the rundown of how to be an old Jewish man. So, where did these ideas and archetypes come from? I think it’s, what, eight archetypes? Or seven?

NR (10:15): I think there’s 10. I think there might be 10. I think eight or 10, yeah.

JJ (10:19): And how did you come up with these archetypes?

NR (10:22): I had a long... how did I come up with them? I came up with a long list and had to whittle it down.

JJ (10:29): There were more?

NR (10:30): Oh, I had a lot more. Yeah. I was asking a lot of my friends about their fathers. "How would you categorize your dad?" There were weird ones because I was also thinking about my own dad and how he kind of falls into this. And obviously, these are just archetypes, but Dick Carroll, the guy who cartooned everything in the book and cartooned the archetypes, kind of made me realize that a lot of these archetypes do come down to what they’re wearing in a lot of ways.

JJ (11:09): I wanted to talk about the fashion.

NR (11:10): And it is hard to think about... for example, my friend Eddie—I was trying to categorize his dad, and he was just saying, "Well, my dad’s like a sweet old Jewish man." It’s like, well, that’s not really exactly a category in itself. It’s somewhere between "Possibly Gentile" and maybe "Schlub" or something, you know what I mean?

JJ (11:36): Yes.

NR (11:37): And it’s just... there’s not enough really to hang onto. There’s nowhere to hang your hat on that.

JJ (11:45): I was going to say, the thing that stuck out to me with those archetypes is how they were dressed. It was so important. And to your point too, you can’t have that archetype without the costume, in a sense.

NR (11:58): Yeah.

JJ (11:58): And so my question to you is, how did you piece together these outfits? Essentially, you styled these people out. How did you go about styling them? Who were you looking for? I guess you were talking to your dad, your friends' dads, and getting pictures of your friends’ dads, but what else were you doing to really build out these outfits?

NR (12:17): Yeah, I think a lot of it honestly came from literally years of me going back and forth with Dick Carroll, exchanging pictures of old Jewish men without any knowledge that we’d be working on this book. It was just something we did for fun, and kind of always doing the little labels that we do now. Like, okay, this guy, he’s got a mustard stain there, he’s got his glasses stuffed in his pocket, he’s got this, he’s got that. He’s either upright or hunched. What does this say about him? He’s wearing these shoes. And we would always be like, geographically, we identified them by neighborhood, and the neighborhood signals certain things about what type of guy they are. And then once we started talking about the book, we already had so much of a back and forth and all this presumed knowledge of who these guys were that it wasn’t that hard, and Dick got it right away.

JJ (13:09): Oh, amazing.

NR (13:09): I mean, it was very... it was actually seamless.

JJ (13:13): Oh, fantastic.

NR (13:13): I basically gave him the list. We probably met up once or twice, talked about it. Dick doesn’t use the phone at all, so he only uses Instagram messages, which is extremely annoying.

JJ (13:24): Really? I actually am into that. I love just communicating through that.

NR (13:29): I think the reason why Dick does that, in my opinion, is because he likes the colors of the avatars. He likes being the avatar, and on the phone, he’s not that—he’s just some guy, and he knows that.

JJ (13:44): Yes, I do it because I don’t save people’s phone numbers.

NR (13:50): It’s a good way to organize. Instagram’s a way to organize.

JJ (13:53): Such a good way. But I know some people don’t like it. I love it.

NR (13:57): I’m not into it, really. I’d rather talk on the phone. I’m always trying to get Dick on the phone. I did it once when we were talking money.

JJ (14:06): Yes. Oh, that’s a phone conversation. But it’s a really fantastic book. I just love it. The other thing I also noticed is, in terms of the designer belt, a lot of Hermes. What was it about?

NR (14:22): On the Tough Guys? Which one?

JJ (14:23): This one right here. The Tough Guy has Hermes. But what is it about the brands—the brands that you picked out—and what’s significant about those brands to the identity of the Jewish men? There’s not only Hermes, there’s the Gucci shoe, there’s the collared future. What do you think the sign of those brands means?

NR (14:50): Those are decisions, actually. I think that specific Hermes belt was a decision that Dick made. Yes. And I think that those guys—the first Hermes belt that you just pointed out—I think Dick was taking from the Tough Jews archetype, which is kind of the Uncut Gems, three generations before the Adam Sandler character, his grandfather or whatever, his great-grandfather—how they dressed. And I think he was just kind of like a walker on the Diamond District. You’re probably going to see a lot of Hermes belts, Hermes ties. My friend Bob, he’s 75, I was hanging out with him yesterday, and he was talking about his Hermes tie.

JJ (15:34): Oh, I love that. What kind of tie does he have?

NR (15:36): I can show you a picture if you want.

JJ (16:00): That’s amazing!

Dapper Bob

NR (16:00): Yeah, he’s got great taste.

JJ (16:04): So his name is Bob?

NR (16:05): His name is Bob, yeah. Out of all the Jewish men, he’s one of my favorites. I love how he dresses.

JJ (16:10): He’s a fashion guy?

NR (16:11): Yeah, he’s a big fashion guy.

JJ (16:13): Okay, so I should also ask, how did your gang of Old Jewish Men come together?

NR (16:18): Yeah, Bob is kind of the newest addition, actually. I met him at shul.

JJ (16:24): What shul do you go to?

NR (16:25): I don’t go very often. It’s an Orthodox shul in Park Slope that I go to once in a while.

JJ (16:35): Yes.

NR (16:36): I probably go four times a year.

JJ (16:37): Yes.

NR (16:39): And Bob was there one time, and another friend of mine was there, and I said to my friend, "Who is that guy?" And he said, "Oh, that’s Bob. Do you want to talk to him?" And I said, "Yeah, I’d love to talk to him." So I started talking to Bob, and it’s a very weird thing trying to tell people, "Hey, I’ve got this gang, this stable of Old Jewish Men. We go around town and film gags or whatever. Do you want to be part of it?" Because one, you’re basically saying to them, "Hey, you’re old. I noticed you’re old." Two, you’re also asking if they’re unemployed or have free time to do this crazy stuff. It’s a hard thing to say. So, I needed my friend to kind of go over to him and be like, "Hey, Noah does this thing. It’s something that people kind of know about, and he’s interested in you." So, he did that, and he set up a date for us, and we all met at the 24-hour Donut Diner on Seventh Avenue.

JJ (17:27): Oh, I’ve never been.

NR (17:28): It’s a great place. Great donuts. And Bob, we were sitting there, and I go, "Bob, is it okay if I record you?" And he goes, "Why do you think I’m here?"

JJ (17:43): He was ready.

NR (17:44): He was ready.

JJ (17:46): All your gang of Old Jewish Men, they love the camera.

NR (17:46): They love it. They absolutely love it. Aaron lives in Midwood. I met him—he’s the only one in that crew that I met on Craigslist.

JJ (17:57): Wait, did you put a Craigslist ad out?

NR (17:59): Yeah, I did. Years ago, in 2021, Brian, my business partner, and I put this ad out. We did a casting call on Craigslist, and the first crew was probably eight to ten guys. We made a movie called OGM Capital with these guys. Then, once the word kind of got out, we picked up new guys like Dave, and we kind of whittled it down from there. Some of the guys were just too young to really be involved.

JJ (18:31): Yes.

NR (18:31): There’s a guy, John—I don’t know if John Ortner is listening to this—but he was good, just too young.

JJ (18:38): Because as we were talking, your criteria is that you must be 70 or older, right?

NR (18:43): Yeah, they really can’t be younger than 70. It just doesn’t work.

JJ (18:49): I feel you. I did think 65 was a good benchmark, but I hear your point. 70 is solid.

NR (18:56): You don’t know anything when you’re 65. You’re still a young man at 65.

JJ (18:57): You know nothing about the world! Okay, so that is what kind of went into your gang.

NR (19:05): Yeah.

JJ (19:05): Are you accepting new members into your gang?

NR (19:07): Always considering, yeah.

JJ (19:09): Always considering?

I asked 6 fashion insiders what's on their fall moodboard and shopping list!

NR (19:09): Well, the thing is, we work with... I’ll still go. Aaron, for example, has a lot of friends that we work into different projects. The crew of those three guys—that’s the core group. We have a lot of other guys around it. I’ve got Aaron’s friend Tommy, who I’ll call, and different guys from the senior center that we did like the Candy Salad video.

JJ (19:33): Yes.

NR (19:34): I don’t know if you saw that video?

JJ (19:35): Yeah, I did. I saw the shirt for it. It’s great.

NR (19:39): And so, if we need more guys, we can always get more guys, basically.

JJ (19:44): Okay. And how involved were they with the book?

NR (19:46): Oh, I interviewed Dave and Aaron extensively.

JJ (19:53): And so, with their interviews, did they inform all the chapters about the qualifications?

NR (20:01): I interviewed Dave extensively about some baseball history, Ebbetts Field, and Sandy Koufax. Just listening to Dave tell these stories... I worked those into the book. I really don’t know anything about baseball. I’m more into basketball and football.

JJ (20:16): Yes.

NR (20:17): I’m into the Mets now, but I can’t say that I know baseball. I didn’t grow up being into it. So, I’ve been kind of playing catch-up. And Aaron, I talked to him a lot about the chapters on shul.

JJ (20:36): Yes.

NR (20:36):
He’s a very religious Jew, so I talked to him a lot about shul.

JJ (20:40):
So he helped you give the shul types?

NR (20:44): Yeah. I was asking him questions—how he sees it. If he sees it one way, then in some ways, that can’t be wrong. You know what I mean? Have you ever seen somebody turn down Hagbah or something like that? You know what Hagbah is?

JJ (21:02): No, what is it?

NR (21:03): Hagbah is when you lift up the Torah. It’s supposed to be an honor, but if you drop it, then everyone has to fast. If you drop the Torah, everyone fasts for a day. You’re supposed to fast for something crazy like 40 days.

JJ (21:17): Oh, wow!

NR (21:28): Aaron and I had a lot of discussions like that. I don’t go to shul enough to be an expert on this stuff.

JJ (21:39): Okay. One of the other chapters I really loved, and part of the reason why I chose Zabar’s—not only because it’s an iconic place but...

NR (21:49): That’s my least favorite word, by the way.

JJ (21:51): Iconic?

NR (21:51): Yeah.

JJ (21:52): Tell me more.

NR (21:55): Every time I hear it now, I just think that we’ve all gotten to this place where it’s such a good word, but we’re addicted to using it, and we’re too lazy to find an alternative. So we’re just stuck with that word.

JJ (22:09): I would agree. I think it’s overused, oversaturated in the vernacular. Okay, so let’s find a different word for iconic.

NR (22:17): Classic.

JJ (22:18): A classic.

NR (22:18): A staple. But neither of those are as good as iconic because iconic is a great word. That’s the thing.

JJ (22:24): Yes.

NR (22:25): But it’s kind of been soiled by overuse. Who do we blame?

JJ (22:28): The overuse?

NR (22:30): Vogue? I don’t know.

JJ (22:34): You’re going to get in hot water with your wife. Okay, I will fill in the blank with a different word other than iconic or staple. No, I love this. It’s a good argument. I think the same thing about "love," actually. I think we overuse the word love where it feels watered down. I remember in college I was that student who asked, “Is there a different word for love? Did the ancient Greeks have different words?” Actually, the ancient Greeks did have all these different levels of love. But none of those words made it into the vernacular.

NR (23:28): Yeah, I mean, the difficult part is describing love. That’s what every jazz song and poem is about, I guess. But yeah, the word love itself is kind of...

JJ (23:49):
People throw it around.

NR (23:50):
Yeah, exactly. But we don’t have to talk about love.

JJ (23:50):
No.

NR (23:55):
But it’s funny, too. Most songs, when you think about it, are about love.

The section all about Zabar’s

JJ (23:54):
Which I find so interesting because there are so many ways to talk about love and relationships. We just don’t have a variety of words for it. But that’s beside the point. We’re at Zabar’s, and part of the reason I picked it was because of its status. It’s an amazing place. I remember coming here during my first year in New York. This was one of my “must-visit” stops, and I had a lox bagel—it was really delicious. You also have a chapter in the book dedicated to the deli landscape. It’s kind of like a chart. So, what does Zabar’s mean to you?

NR (24:38):
What does Zabar’s mean to me? Let me think...

JJ (24:47):
What’s your first experience with Zabar’s?

NR (24:48):
Well, actually, I’m attached to Zabar’s because—though I don’t know how he feels about me—but Willie Zabar, the grandson, is a good friend of mine. I’m not even trying to name-drop Willie or anything. Willie’s one of these guys who’s always contributed a lot to Old Jewish Men. So much so that he went to Detroit with me to film and do the behind-the-scenes work for our movie Sauna Dreams. And I really respected Willie for being dedicated enough to the spirit of Old Jewish Men to want to do that. I’ve met his brothers, his grandfather, and his great-great uncle, and I’ve got a lot of respect for what they’ve built. I mean, what a business!

JJ (25:50):
An institution.

NR (25:51):
Yeah.

JJ (25:51):
Maybe “institution” is a better word than “iconic.”

NR (25:56):
Yeah, it’s a real institution. It really is. I think it’s a great sign when a place can do so many things wrong and still be loved. Zabar’s can mess up—they can be a Jewish deli that serves bacon, they can have high prices, they can gouge you—and people will still look at them like they’re the great Jewish deli. You know what I mean? So maybe it’s not about what they’re doing right. Look at all the stuff they’re doing wrong, and yet we still go there.

JJ (26:33):
We should talk about what we ordered.

NR (26:40):
I’m kind of off bagels right now. I’m ordering bialys.

JJ (26:44):
Yes, which you talk about in the book, too.

NR (26:45):
Yeah, yeah. I talk about bialys. Bagels wear me out now. I’m too old for bagels—I have to take a nap after. But I got a bialy with lox and cream cheese, the works, and I ate it much faster than you because it’s a much smaller sandwich.

JJ (26:58):
Yes.

NR (26:59):
And it’s funny because I’m usually a really fast eater, but I was savoring it.

NR (27:03):
Yeah, I eat very fast. I was also really hungry coming here.

JJ (27:07):
I was too, and I still took my time to eat.

NR (27:10):
Yeah, I wolfed it down.

JJ (27:11):
Yes. I got my usual, which is an everything bagel.

NR (27:15):
Toasted or untoasted?

JJ (27:15):
Toasted. I have done something blasphemous in the past, though—I’ve scooped out the bagel.

NR (27:23):
Yeah, that is blasphemy.

JJ (27:25):
But it kind of feels better.

NR (27:27):
Why do you do that? Is that for calories?

JJ (27:31):
Well, I don’t do it for the calories, but I think, to your point, a bagel has a lot of bread. Scooping out the inside takes out a lot of that excess. So, it almost feels like the meeting of a bagel and a bialy because it gives you the amount of bread as a bialy but still has the sensation of a bagel.

NR (27:52):
Yeah, you’re fooling yourself into thinking that, but I get it.

JJ (27:55):
That’s my rationale for scooping out a bagel. I didn’t do that today, but the last few times I ordered bagels, I’ve been scooping them out.

NR (28:06):
It’s funny—my issue with that is, if someone handed me a scooped-out bagel, I’d eat it all day. But I could never order it.

JJ (28:16):
Would you feel embarrassed?

NR (28:17):
I’d feel like an idiot. It’s like asking the cashier at Duane Reade to give you a bottle of laxatives or something—it’s just embarrassing. That’s why I couldn’t do it.

JJ (28:31):
It’s not in the book either, right? I don’t remember seeing it.

NR (28:35):
Scoop? No, I didn’t put that in the book.

JJ (28:35):
But you didn’t shame it, either. You don’t shame it.

NR (28:41):
I don’t shame it, no. I probably just forgot. Also, it goes unsaid—you’d never do that. If a guy did that...

JJ (28:53):
I feel terrible now.

NR (28:53):
No, I’m just saying if one of these old guys did that. But that’s the other thing—it’s so strange what some of these guys eat at delis, what their favorite orders are. You’d never believe it.

JJ (29:07):
What’s the craziest thing you’ve seen?

NR (29:09):
The craziest thing that they do all the time is, you go to a deli, and I’m always paying—sorry, I shouldn’t say that. Dave sometimes pays, too. But you go there, and Bob sometimes will just say, “All I want is a plain toasted bagel and a Diet Coke.” And that means: cut the bagel, toast it, put nothing on it, and hand him just a plain toasted bagel. That’s it. It’s basically like a prison meal.

JJ (29:38):
And a Diet Coke?

NR (29:39):
And a Diet Coke.

JJ (29:39):
Which is, I think, the worst Coke in the world.

NR (29:41):
He loves it. This guy lives on Diet Coke and cigarettes.

JJ (29:49):
And plain bagels?

NR (29:50):
Plain toasted bagels. Or, if the bagel’s fresh, he won’t even have it toasted. Dave, every time—plain bagel, toasted, cream cheese. Aaron, same thing. They don’t like lox.

JJ (30:06):
Really? Something so quintessentially Jewish.

NR (30:09):
I think Dave feels ridiculous paying that much for lox.

JJ (30:18):
Because it’s really expensive.

NR (30:09):
His family probably buys their lox at Costco, and you can’t rationalize paying for it at a deli if you can get it at home. I totally get it.

JJ (30:26):
I feel that. I usually go for a lox bagel, but I decided to keep it simple today.

NR (30:25):
Yeah, sometimes simple is good.

JJ (30:26):
So, another thing I found really interesting in the book is that while it’s New York-focused, it’s actually more international. There’s a great section where you’re charting restaurants in Detroit, London, and Paris. How did you get that intel? Did you have to travel?

NR (30:50):
I got the Detroit info when we went there for the movie. A lot of those places I asked people about when we were there. For London, I interviewed a couple of friends of mine, like David—what’s his last name? I can’t remember—but I interviewed him, and he gave me a list of places. I didn’t know anything about London.

JJ (31:21):
And LA?

NR (31:21):
LA I knew more. I put Courage in there because I love their bagels and I’m friends with them. It was nice for them to let us do an event there. Formosa—I used to go to the new Formosa Cafe; I never went to the old one. I also interviewed people from Miami, Boca, and New York. A lot of these places are from my friend Alex Trout, who’s another great future Old Jewish Man. He works on the obits desk at The Times. He’s the guy who would tell you that Old Jewish Men live many lives.

JJ (32:02):
Tell me more.

NR (32:03):
So, even today... what was the name of the guy who had the obit in the newsletter design? Manfred Kirchheimer. He was a film director who struggled his entire career, and then in 2018, 2022, he made four movies based on footage from the ‘70s and ‘80s. And in his last decade of life is when he shined the brightest. These guys just keep going, you know what I mean? They don’t hang it up. They’re powered by ambition.

NR (32:44):
And his obit came out, I think, last week, and my guy was saying T-Trot wrote it. The point is that in his last decade of life is when he basically shined the brightest. And these guys, they just keep going. You know what I mean? They don’t just hang it up. They’re powered by ambition.

JJ (33:04):
How long did it take to write the book?

NR (33:07):
Robert Caro, by the way—I'm definitely not a Caro completist at all—but just what I know about him and his work ethic, he’s definitely a Mount Rushmore guy for me.

JJ (33:16):
Okay, you’ve added a fifth person to your Mount Rushmore! But how long did it take to write the book?

NR (33:23):
The book? Well, the first draft… they over-ordered. They asked me for 70,000 words, but only needed 45,000. That took me about six months from beginning to end. In total, it was a two-year project.

JJ (33:39):
Oh wow, it’s been a two-year project?

NR (33:40):
Yeah.

JJ (33:41):
So you’ve been interviewing people for two years. How many people do you think you’ve interviewed?

NR (33:44):
How many old guys did I interview for the book? About 40, maybe. Yeah, something like that.

JJ (33:56):
Did you get to talk to Larry David?

NR (33:57):
What’s that?

JJ (33:58):
Did you reach out to Larry David?

NR (34:01):
No, I never reached out to Larry David.

JJ (34:02):
Did you try?

NR (34:04):
I didn’t try, but a friend of mine gave me his cell phone number, and I was going to call him, but I decided against it.

JJ (34:12):
Why?

NR (34:15):
I just thought... he doesn’t want to talk to me.

JJ (34:20):
What happened to facing your fears?

NR (34:21):
Yeah... well, you’re right. I should have.

JJ (34:26):
Do you still have his number?

NR (34:28):
I do. I still have his number.

JJ (34:29):
I think you should call him. Why not?

NR (34:34):
I was going to call him to ask him to blurb the book, hoping he would say, “I don’t blurb books,” and use that as a blurb.

JJ (34:40):
Yes.

NR (34:41):
But you’re right. You’re really right. I should have called him. I did call Robert Caro, though.

JJ (34:47):
Oh, how did that go?

NR (34:48):
His wife answered the phone. It was 9:30 on a Wednesday morning. I called their house, and I got the voicemail first. I left a message like, “Hi, it’s Noah Rinsky. I’m calling about The Old Jewish Men’s Guide to Eating, Sleeping, and Futzing Around. I was hoping to talk to Bob.” Then she picked up, and it was his wife, Ina. I said, “Hi, Ina, it’s Noah Rinsky. I’m calling about The Old Jewish Men’s Guide to Eating, Sleeping, and Futzing Around.” She said, “You want to talk to Bob?” I said, “Yeah, put him on.” Then Bob came on the line, and I said, “Hello, Bob. It’s Noah Rinsky. I’m calling about The Old Jewish Men’s Guide to Eating, Sleeping, and Futzing Around,” and he said, “Do we know each other?” I told him, “We have a lot of mutual friends,” and he goes, “What do you want from me?” I said, “I was hoping you could blurb my book.” And he said, “I don’t blurb books,” and hung up.

JJ (35:35):
Wait, is that one of the blurbs?

NR (35:36):
We were going to use it, but we didn’t.

JJ (35:38):
Wait, I feel like I saw the blurb list. There were some really great ones. Your wife had a great one. She said something like, “Master of this generation’s Dead Sea Scrolls.” That’s pretty high praise.

NR (36:00):
That’s high up there. She also has a really good sidebar in the book about baldness.

JJ (36:04):
Yes, which I really loved. I’m an advocate for bald men. My boyfriend’s bald.

NR (36:11):
Oh yeah? How old is he?

My boyfriend Nick. He is not an OJM but he is bald.

JJ (36:14):
He’s 38 this year.

NR (36:14):
Okay.

JJ (36:15):
So, a reasonable age to be bald. He’s been bald since 30. He’s been bald for a while.

NR (36:23):
Is he totally shaved, or is he just receding?

JJ (36:27):
He has hair, but there’s a complete bald spot. He’s not going to like that I’m saying this, but it’s the truth. He has hair that he has to cut, but there’s definitely a bald spot.

NR (36:38):
If you could compare his haircut to any famous person, what would it be? Does he have the Costanza?

JJ (36:47):
No, Okay. Do you know that guy who was in those Bourne movies? Jason…. This guy

NR (36:55):
Oh, Statham, yeah. I mean, that’s probably the most attractive living bald man.

JJ (37:00):
Yeah, that would be his hair.

NR (37:07):
You’re doing well, then. You’re doing good.

JJ (37:07):
Yes. So it took you about two years to write the book and you interviewed around 40 people?

NR (37:14):
Yeah, I’d say so. I interviewed all my friends’ parents, my own father, my mom—I talked a little bit about what it’s like being married to an old Jewish man. I also interviewed my wife’s father, and really, anyone I could.

JJ (37:33):
Have you always wanted to be an author?

NR (37:35):
I’ve always wanted to be a fiction writer. That’s always been the dream.

JJ (37:40):
Yes.

NR (37:41):
Fiction, and also screenwriting. But I’ve always been more into fiction. That’s where my heart is.

JJ (37:48):
Is there going to be a sequel to The Old Jewish Men’s Guide? I mean, this hasn’t even come out yet, but you can pre-order the book now. Do you foresee a second guide? What about The Old Jewish Men’s Wife Guide?

NR (38:01):
Why not? I don’t think I’m the right person to write it, but there could definitely be that book.

JJ (38:06):
You could oversee it.

NR (38:08):
I could oversee it. I would happily consult on that book.

JJ (38:11):
Yes.

NR (38:12):
I already turned in a proposal for a new book, and I will say that Fran Lebowitz is a central figure in it.

JJ (38:21):
Have you gotten to talk to her?

NR (38:22):
Not for this book, no. I’ve never spoken to her.

JJ (38:27):
I think she’s an honorary Old Jewish Man.

NR (38:29):
Yeah, we inducted her. She was inducted.

JJ (38:34):
Did you send her merch?

NR (38:36):
I’ve never sent her merch. I should. I think she’d get a kick out of it.

JJ (38:40):
Do you think she’d wear it?

NR (38:41):
I don’t think she’d wear it, but I think she’d look at it, say, “That’s funny,” and give it to someone else.

JJ (38:49):
Which is kind of a high honor.

NR (38:50):
Yeah.

JJ (38:53):
That’s pretty good.

NR (38:53):
She’d at least chuckle at it, and that’s fine by me.

JJ (38:54):
No, it’s amazing.

NR (38:55):
It’s fine by me.

JJ (38:56):
So, this has been really amazing. I wrap up my interviews and podcasts with four questions. The first one is, you, my guest, get to ask me a question.

NR (39:09):
Okay. What was the thing that drew you most to Judaism?

JJ (39:19):
Wow. Okay, that’s a good one. So, I was raised Christian.

NR (39:24):
And where were you raised, by the way?

JJ (39:26):
Virginia.

NR (39:28):
Where’d you go to school?

JJ (39:30):
College? NYU, which is also maybe where I converted to Judaism. There’s a large Jewish population here, so this seemed like the ideal place to explore it. But anyways, I was raised Christian, and I’m queer, so I was raised to believe that I would go to hell. That just didn’t make sense to me. Then Orange is the New Black had a storyline about one of the characters converting to Judaism, and they talked about how in Judaism, there’s no hell to put you in. I thought, “This sounds amazing.” So when I came to New York, my first Shabbat, I went to the Jewish Center at NYU. I didn’t know anything that was going on, but it felt right. I just love the feeling that there’s purpose—not saying there isn’t in Christianity or any other religion—but I love how in Judaism, there’s a ritual for everything, a prayer for everything. It just felt right.

NR (40:34):
It’s all feeling.

JJ (40:34):
Yes, it’s all feeling. It was a seven-year journey, and your wife was a part of it, actually.

NR (40:58):
She came to the mikvah?

JJ (41:00):
Yes.

NR (41:01):
Wow, I remember that.

JJ (41:02):
Yes, I have to thank your little family. They’ve played such a significant role in my life. Actually, Liana wrote that Vogue piece about me that kind of started a lot. It was because of your event where I…

NR (41:20):
Oh, it was from that event?

JJ (41:24):
No, she wrote it before that event. But your event is what got me back into my Judaism.

NR (41:27):
I remember meeting you at that event. I had never met you before.

JJ (41:31):
Yes, and now we’re here.

NR (41:33):
That was two years ago, right?

JJ (41:35):
I think so.

NR (41:36):
It was a summer event, right?

JJ (41:37):
Yes.

NR (41:38):
It was like speed schmoozing.

@j.j.andreI went to the Old Jewish Men Schmoozing event last night, which was the perfect time to bring out this Alaia dress! Shoes: Manolo Blahnik, Belt: Etsy, Bag: @Dior , Kippah: @oldjewishmen 🎥@liana.ava #fashion

Tiktok failed to load.

Enable 3rd party cookies or use another browser

JJ (41:40):
Yes, yes. I wore an Alaia dress.

NR (41:44):
I don’t know what that is, but nice.

JJ (41:47):
That’s a very important designer. Ask your wife—it’s a very important designer.

NR (41:49):
Alaia?

JJ (41:51):
Yes.

NR (41:52):
How do you spell that?

JJ (41:54):
A-L-A-I-A. I think he was also Jewish.

NR (41:56):
Okay.

JJ (41:57):
Azzedine Alaia. Ask your wife.

NR (42:00):
I’ll ask her.

JJ (42:02):
Okay, so that’s my question answered. Now for my final three questions—all related to culture. Don’t be scared—they’re open to interpretation. Since my newsletter is called Consider Yourself Cultured, these questions focus on culture. The first question is: Who is the most cultured person you know?

NR (42:21):
How do you define cultured? Is it being well-read? Is it having decorum in everyday life? Is it someone who corrects you when you don’t know something? Someone who keeps up with the latest trends? How do you define it?

JJ (42:43):
It’s all of that and everything in between. These questions are open to how my guests interpret culture.

NR (42:53):
Okay, the most cultured person I know... my friend Susie, I guess. She seems to know everything that’s happening now, for better or for worse—probably because she’s a journalist. I guess all my friends who are journalists seem to be quite cultured. My friend Alex Trout—he’s probably not the most current with what’s happening right now, but he knows what came before. He works on the obituaries desk at The New York Times. He can do the most citations while making a point, using historic references to carve his argument. It makes you feel like you need to catch up and read a little more. So, yeah, someone like that. These New York Times guys really know their stuff.

JJ (44:01):
I would hope! I would expect it!

NR (44:02):
Yeah, there’s a reason why they work there.

JJ (44:39):
What is your latest cultural obsession?

NR (44:49):
Latest cultural obsession? Can you give me an example?

JJ (44:56):
Okay, so for instance, mine right now are those at-home machines where you can work out on a treadmill while watching TikToks or shows. I’m obsessed with them.

NR (45:12):
Got it, something like that... Well, I was talking to Liana about this—she just got a pair of those shoes with the toes, you know, the ones that simulate being barefoot.

JJ (45:26):
The five-finger shoes?

NR (45:28):
Yeah, those. I started running with her probably a year ago, and it makes sense to me to get shoes like that for running—or even wearing shoes like that daily, to simulate being barefoot. I don’t have a pair yet, but I’ve read about them enough to know I’m interested. I wouldn’t say I’m obsessed, though. Another thing I’ve been into lately is watches. A couple of years ago, I bought a bunch of old Tag Heuer watches on eBay—probably seven of them—but most of them have water damage. Except for the one I’m wearing now. And they’re diving watches, so I feel like I really got taken for a ride on eBay. But I want to buy more of them! I don’t know why.

JJ (46:27):
More of the ones that are water-damaged?

NR (46:28):
Yeah, I like them. I just want to have more of the different colors. I like that they kind of look like children’s watches.

JJ (46:35):
Does yours look like a children’s watch?

NR (46:37):
Yeah, it looks like a little toy watch.

JJ (46:42):
Do you have a metal preference, or are you open to any?

NR (46:44):
I like silver a lot.

JJ (46:50):
Would you do gold?

NR (46:50):
I would do gold. I have a gold one—two, actually. One of them is all gold. And speaking of gold, we’re going to start making gold jewelry.

JJ (47:00):
Really?

NR (47:01):
Yeah, we are.

JJ (47:03):
Like real gold? Fine jewelry?

NR (47:06):
Yes, real gold. We’re working on it right now.

JJ (47:11):
That’s kind of amazing.

NR (47:12):
Yeah.

JJ (47:15):
Everyone’s doing jewelry right now. I’m doing a jewelry thing as well.

NR (47:18):
What are you doing?

JJ (47:19):
I’m coming out with a jewelry line.

NR (47:20):
Wow.

JJ (47:21):
Yeah.

NR (47:23):
What kind of stuff are you doing?

JJ (47:23):
I can show you after.

NR (47:24):
Okay, sure.

JJ (47:26):
I’ll just have to have you sign an NDA.

NR (47:28):
Sure.

JJ (47:31):
I don’t think we would design the same thing.

NR (47:33):
I don’t think so either.

JJ (47:36):
But that’s such an interesting pivot—jewelry.

NR (47:39):
Yeah.

JJ (47:40):
Why jewelry for you right now?

NR (47:45):
Well, it goes well with the stuff we’re already selling. When you see it, you’ll know why we’re doing it.

JJ (47:50):
Okay.

NR (47:52):
It’s specific. It’s a specific lane. It’s not just about making necklaces for the sake of it.

JJ (47:59):
Yes.

NR (48:00):
But we’re getting into that, and we’re going to be doing more cut-and-sew stuff as well.

JJ (48:04):
Yes. You’re really great—I looked on your website today. There’s a lot of cool merch. Who designs your merch?

NR (48:10):
My friend Brian—well, my business partner Brian. He designs most of the pieces.

JJ (48:12):
Does he design the slogans, too, or do you co-design?

NR (48:19):
Well, he has the actual design skills.

JJ (48:21):
Yes.

NR (48:22):
So, we ideate together, and then he works his magic. Actually, our intern, young Eli, has kind of taken the reins for our newest line that we’ll be putting out in the fall.

JJ (48:41):
What’s the new line about? Can I get a preview?

NR (48:44):
It has something to do with American sporting, but Eli is kind of relieving Brian from carrying such a heavy load with the designing. He’s been helping us a lot.

JJ (48:57):
I wanted to ask you something. You’re obviously riffing off established houses, most notably... can I even say it, or will that cause legal problems? I guess it’s known...

NR (49:13):
Who are you talking about?

JJ (49:14):
Ralph Lauren.

NR (49:15):
Oh yeah. Never heard of him.

JJ (49:20):
How do you all deal with that? Have Ralph Lauren’s people ever contacted you about the designs?

NR (49:28):
Thank God, no. If anyone from his legal department is listening to this, please don’t show him.

JJ (49:35):
We have to admit, though—he’s a genius. It’s kind of amazing that the most American brand was created by a Jewish man. That’s pretty fantastic.

NR (49:50):
Yeah.

JJ (49:53):
You can’t separate the two, which is a really special thing. Does that make sense?

NR (50:01):
Definitely. I mean, also by a guy who never went to design school, didn’t know how to design, didn’t know how to sew—he was just a guy who could weave these stories.

JJ (50:15):
I think that’s what’s special. He has an eye, and the way he thinks about things is very American. It’s an American brand, and it’s such an American way to design clothes—to think of it as something cinematic, a universe. I think that’s the thing about being American. I was a history minor, and my specialty was American history, and I think the beautiful thing about America is that it was a homeland for so many different cultures coming together. So this idea that Yiddish is part of the common American vernacular is amazing, and it speaks to that meshing of identities. Does that make sense?

NR (51:08):
Yeah. Just to add to what you’re saying, it’s like not only is Yiddish part of our daily vernacular, but it’s almost seen as a form of being cultured and educated, when really, it’s a language of peasants.

JJ (51:32):
Isn’t that fantastic? Isn’t that amazing?

NR (51:35):
That is amazing.

JJ (51:35):
Okay, so the last question I have for you is: What should everyone watch, listen to, and read to consider themselves cultured?

NR (51:46):
Once you’re done with The Old Jewish Men’s Guide to Eating, Sleeping, and Futzing Around, I’d say... I’m rereading some George Orwell right now, and I’m really enjoying it. So, that’s the first thing that comes to mind. You said listen to?

JJ (51:57):
Yes.

NR (51:58):
You always have to listen to Oscar Peterson if you want to feel that swing. And for what to watch... I just went to see Le Cercle Rouge at Film Forum the other night—they’re doing a Melville retrospective. His movies are very cool. If you like moody black-and-white, jazzy films with strong-jawed French protagonists who carry guns and rob banks, it’s perfect.

JJ (52:38):
What could be better?

NR (52:39):
Exactly, what could be better?

JJ (52:41):
Well, thank you, Noah. This was amazing.

NR (52:43):
Thanks, Jalil. Thanks for having me.

---

I may earn some commission if you make a purchase through one of the links above.

Follow me on Instagram here!